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Old 2007.03.04, 06:41 PM   #46
shuter
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Sinister_Y - You are charger wealthy for sure. Are you using a 12 V. power source to power all four of them?

Is that a couple boxes of Fujicells in the backround? I'm looking forward to hearing how they measure up with capacity and Volts. Intellects have been time tested and recommended by so many of the experienced racers I think they are the benchmark. The conditioning and charging results are just the beginning of the real test. Comparing the Fujicells with real world driving is where the rubber meets the road. Hehe. I'm rooting for the Fujicells since they are so much less expensive.

Thanks for obtaining and posting all the battery specs from the various battery manufacturers. I am wondering how we can track the internal resistance of the batteries over time and use. Even using the same charge/discharge rates for different battery brands, they may show various rates of growth in internal resistance. Do you have a way to track that?
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Old 2007.03.07, 11:34 AM   #47
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yeah, I'm using an ****** 12V power supply (10A constant/13.5A max). It is capable of providing (10 X 12) 120 Watts constantly.

Technically the most any 1 C9000 charger would pull is 14 Watts (max charging current as per unit specs= 2.0 A per bank/cell X 1.5V (really the cell is 1.25V, but using 1.5V as I noticed that voltage when doing in the break-in mode, cells will reach around 1.46V)= 3.5W x 4 banks= 14W)

...take the 120Watts that the power supply can provide and voila! you can comfortably provide power to 8 C-9000 units and a fan!

Anyway, 4 chargers is enough for me. The size of these chargers really overwhelmed me at first. That and the LCD display is huge! Really no pictures do this charger justice in my mind.

In regards to internal resistance, there are a few chargers that can do this (i.e ICE charger). But, for me when I notice that the cells are losing punch, hell just throw them out (recycle of course!). As noted the Fuji cells are so cheap. On another note, while I was doing research on all the battery manufacturers, many had to say that the intellects had the most voltage, but noticed a signature drop after 2 weeks of use. Also that after the first 100 cells or so, batches are not as high voltage. That is why all factory drivers get the first batches out. My only guess is that while manfacturing would still stay within tolerances, the last batches of batteries would not be as matched to specs as the 1st batches...
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Old 2007.05.04, 04:39 AM   #48
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Found this article with some great informatin:

One of the most important and beneficial features of the C9000 is the Break-In mode. Battery manufacturers rate their battery capacity and cycle life using a “standard” charge and a “standard discharge.” The C9000’s Break-In mode allows you to compare your batteries performance to what they are supposed to be. This allows you to know the condition of your batteries, and to compare various brands of batteries.

Sometimes batteries that have been abused or left in storage for an extended period of time can be brought back to life by a Break-In cycle. It doesn’t always work, but since it is an automatic function on the C9000, it’s worth a try.

Well, it’s not completely automated. It’s best to start with a discharge battery, so you may have to do a discharge first and then run the Break-In. Most cells should be able to handle the low charge rate of the Break-In mode without problems, but some cells have a higher internal resistance and they tend to heat up a lot when overcharged. Starting with a discharged cell eliminates the overcharge heating.

Keep in mind that the “standard” charge involves charging a cell at rate equal to one tenth of its labeled capacity for 16 hours. In the Break-In mode, this “standard” charge is followed by a one hour rest period, then the cell is discharged over five hours. After another rest period, another “standard” charge is done on the cell. Doing the math we come up with a 16 hour charge + 1 hour rest + 5 hour discharge + 1 hour rest + 16 hour charge = 39 hours.

39 hours seems like a long time to tie up your charger, but your cells will love you for it. Since it requires no input from you, other than selecting the mAh capacity of your cell when you start, you can just set it and leave

The alternative is to do several cycles. The C9000 allows you to program up to 12 cycles and allows you to set the charge and discharge rates for the cycling. It also stores the capacity data so you can review it and see what effect cycling is having. The default charge rate is 1000 mA and the default discharge rate is 500 mA in Cycle mode.

These features alone make it worth having this charger, but there is more…

The C9000 has a discharge only mode.

Have you ever wondered how much capacity you loose with your cells sitting on the shelf for a week or so? It is often widely stated that NiMh cells will loose almost all of their capacity in a very short time, however with the discharge mode of the C9000 you can put those reports to bed and know that is not the case. With the introduction of the new low self discharge rate batteries like the Sanyo Eneloop cells, you can also check to see if they are holding up to their claims. You can also determine how much of an improvement a higher capacity battery offers.

You can even check out the various brands of Alkaline cells to see which offers the highest capacity for the discharge rate you are interested in. The C9000 will not charge Alkaline cells, but it does allow you to do a discharge on them. Ever wonder how much better a Lithium primary cell is than an Alkaline cell? Now you can check it out for yourself.

The discharge mode defaults at 500 mA, but allows you to select a discharge rate from 100 mA to 1000 mA, in 100 mA steps. It continues until the cell reaches 0.9 volts and the display shows the capacity in mAh, the voltage of the cell, and the time involved with the discharge. This information is displayed until the cell is removed.

In multi cell applications, your device will stop working when the lowest capacity cell runs out. To get the best performance in multi cell applications, you need to match your cells on capacity. This way they all run out at the same time. The discharge mode of the C9000 allows you to do this.

Make sure you also get the 12 volt adaptor cord for the C9000. In many parts of the world there are times when an emergency occurs and the power goes out. During an extended power outage the C9000’s ability to operate from 12 volts gives you the ability to recharge batteries when the main power is out.

The AC adapter for the C9000 works worldwide accepting 100-240 volts 50/60 Hz input.

Now that we have worked our way through all of the “bonus” features of this charger, let’s take a look at how it charges.

To charge your batteries, insert them in the charger and take them out when “Done” is displayed.

If you are interested in a “fuller” charge, wait two hours after “Done” for the top off charge to complete.

That’s it.



Can it really be that simple? YES!!!



As cells age their internal resistance increases. The C9000 checks for this and will display “HIGH” if the internal resistance is increased to the point that it is not healthy enough for high rate charging.

If you get the “HIGH” message, recycle the cell and move on.

The C9000 has a default charge rate of 1000 mA. This charge rate works great for all AA cells and also is well suited for AAA cells. It may be a little high for some of the older low capacity (600 mAh) AAA cells, but if the cell is in good condition, it will do fine at the default rate.

If you don’t like the default settings, and think you know something about battery charging, the C9000 allows you to select a charging rate from 200 mA up to 2000 mA in 100 mA steps. The NiMh battery manufacturers recommend charging at a 0.5C to 1.0C charge rate to insure a strong “end of charge” signal. C refers to the labeled capacity of the battery. If we had a 2000 mAh battery, a 0.5C charging rate would be 1000 mA, and a 1C charging rate would be 2000 mA.

So, what happens if you want to charge everything at 200 mA?

Well, first of all, it takes longer, and secondly, the end of charge signal may be too weak for the charger to recognize it and terminate the charge. This will result in overcharging the cell. The C9000 will “time out” at 4000 mAh, but it is probably better to set a timer and manually check to see if the charger missed the termination signal. If it did, you can manually shut it off. I have charged a wide variety of brands and capacities of both AA and AAA cells at 200 mA and have not had a missed termination, but my sample is too small to make a broad statement. Usually the C9000 will properly terminate, but I am sure there will be some cases where it will continue to charge at this low rate until it “times out.”

At the other end of the spectrum is charging everything at 2000 mA. When charging four AA cells at 2000 mA, the C9000 heats up. This heat is radiated to the cells that are charging, and they heat up as well. The amount the cells heat up is dependent on their internal resistance and general condition.

Here are some actual test results while charging 4 cells at 2000 mA:

AAA 850 mAh cells got up to 118 F. These cells were not in very good condition.
AAA 900 mAh cells got up to 115 F. These were in pretty good condition.
AAA 700 mAh cells got up to 112 F. These are old, well used cells.
AA 2300 mAh cells got up to 130 F. These are well used cells that have a slightly increased internal resistance.
AA 1800 mAh cells got up to 112 F. These cells are designed for high current and have very low internal resistance.
AA 2500 mAh cells got up to 125 F. These are new cells in good condition.
AA 2600 mAh cells got up to 137 F at mid cell and 135 F at the negative end where the C9000 monitors the cell temperature. These are also new cells, but they have high internal resistance and are not suited to high charge rates, or high discharge rates. At high charge and discharge rates, they heat up.
AA 2650 mAh cells got up to 128 F. These are new cells with moderate use.
AA 2600 mAh cells got up to 129 F. These are older cells with hard use.

Keep in mind that these are the peak temperatures that occurred during the last stage of the charge. The temperature actually peaks a few moments after the charge terminates. The cell temperatures during the bulk of the charge were in the 95 – 100 F range.

The C9000 monitors the temperature of each battery slot and terminates the charge if the cell temperature (measured at the negative end of the cell) exceeds around 135 F. There is no alarm indication when a cell terminates on high temperature. The C9000 simply terminates the charge and displays “Done” along with the charge time and mAh put into the cell.

The C9000 utilizes a very tight battery holder. A good connection is required for high rate charging. I have found that the easiest way to insert cells is to put the negative end in first and snap in the positive end. To remove the cell, press back to compress the spring at the negative end and tip the cell out positive end first.

The C9000 is about 6.5 inches tall, 4.5 inches wide and 1.5 inches thick. It has a lift rod that raises the back of the charger up for easier viewing and better air circulation. The power adaptor is roughly 2.875 inches tall, 1.875 inches wide, and 1.5 inches deep, not including the prongs that plug in.

A top off charge of 100 mA is applied at the end of the charge cycle for two hours. After that, a maintenance charge of 10 mA is applied for as long as the battery is in the slot.

Maha has a three year warranty on the C9000. To view more information on this excellent charger and to check out the owners manual, visit www.mahaenergy.com .

The C9000 was released in late December 2006. Early units had some difficulty terminating with a few cells, especially at lower charge rates. This review was done on a C9000 received in February 2007, and reflects improvements Maha has made to the charge algorithm.

Another big “thumbs up” to Maha. This is an excellent charger/analyzer. Simple enough for casual use, but offering advanced, sophisticated features for those times when we are trying to better understand the condition of our batteries, or when we are matching cells for multi cell use.
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Old 2007.06.30, 01:54 PM   #49
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I just picked up a c9000, and I have a couple questions that somebody here might know the answer to. Let me start by saying I'm a complete battery novice, and I've been using either Rayovac IC3 15-minute batts or Energizer 15-minute batts for as long as I've been using rechargables. Several of my sets have been in use for a couple years.

I'm wondering if anyone has a good plan/procedure for me to weed out any bad cells and to group the remaining good cells. I assumed (based on the insturctions) that I should run "refresh and analyze" mode three times or so. So far with about 8 batteries run through it though, I seem to be killing them. Cells that I'm pretty sure would at least charge and run a car are now totally dead. Am I doing something wrong, and is there anything about 15-minute batts that would cause the C9000 to behave differently that expected?
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Old 2007.06.30, 08:48 PM   #50
shuter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperFly
I just picked up a c9000, and I have a couple questions that somebody here might know the answer to. Let me start by saying I'm a complete battery novice, and I've been using either Rayovac IC3 15-minute batts or Energizer 15-minute batts for as long as I've been using rechargables. Several of my sets have been in use for a couple years.

I'm wondering if anyone has a good plan/procedure for me to weed out any bad cells and to group the remaining good cells. I assumed (based on the insturctions) that I should run "refresh and analyze" mode three times or so. So far with about 8 batteries run through it though, I seem to be killing them. Cells that I'm pretty sure would at least charge and run a car are now totally dead. Am I doing something wrong, and is there anything about 15-minute batts that would cause the C9000 to behave differently that expected?
I don't know much about IC-3 15 min batteries. Seems to me that someone reported problems with an occasional battery not functioning properly when removed from the charger and immediately put into the car. I have seen an occasional IC-3 showing dead or nearly dead after charging, then when allowed to rest and checked later showed charged. I have no idea why.

If the IC-3 batteries are 1000mAh they will need a charge rate of approximately 4000mAh (4 Amps) to fully charge from a discharged state in 15 Min. The MH-C9000 has a maximum charge rate of 2000mAh which is only half of the needed rate. I have no idea if the charge/discharge algorithms created for standard NiMH batteries are what is needed for IC-3 batteries.

Hope someone can shed some light on this issue.
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Old 2007.07.01, 10:09 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by shuter
I have seen an occasional IC-3 showing dead or nearly dead after charging, then when allowed to rest and checked later showed charged. I have no idea why.

Thanks for the reply, shuter. You were correct, in that the IC3s went from showing totally dead to fully charged (as they should have been) by just sitting on the table for a couple hours.

I have to say I'm enjoying the C9000 to get a good picture of the state of my batteries. So far, the only real drawbacks I would mention is the way the AAA cells fit into it. I don't see why it has to be such a tenuous hold on the negative end of the battery. My 4th slot often pops out, which can be a real drag when you're halfway through a 4-hour process.

Does anyone have any recommended settings for 800mah IC3 batts in the refresh/analyze mode? I'm using 800ma (1C) for charging, and 500ma for discahrging, but thinking about cranking it up higher since they're IC3s. Anyone know what makes an IC3 different from other NiMHs?
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Old 2007.08.02, 03:49 PM   #52
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If you cannot get this or any cell to accept a standard charg rate lower the amperage of your charge to say 1/2C (400ma). The softer the charge the more likely a cell is to take the charge. After one cycle it should take a 1C or close to it.
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