2016.12.02, 07:30 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 80
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I remember having the same problem.
Car seemed faster before I added that missing bearing.
Without the bearing I though the gear was wobbling around too much, so I looked for that missing bearing thinking it would make things better.. but it didn't.
I remember I had to adjust the spacers on each side of the differential so that the meshing of the perpendicular gear/differential is a bit looser.
I guess the bearing centres the gear in place more rigidly so that the meshing needs to be tuned more carefully, without the bearing the central shaft gear can move a bit and that probably helps create less friction.
Anyway the AWD gears create a lot of friction in general so anything slightly not right will lead to a slower car.
I also found metal gears slowing the car down, again that could have been down to more friction or me not adjusting the meshing correctly.
A bit of a nightmare of a car to tune!
Last edited by Minizorro; 2016.12.02 at 07:35 PM.
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2016.12.03, 05:42 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minizorro
I remember having the same problem.
Car seemed faster before I added that missing bearing.
Without the bearing I though the gear was wobbling around too much, so I looked for that missing bearing thinking it would make things better.. but it didn't.
I remember I had to adjust the spacers on each side of the differential so that the meshing of the perpendicular gear/differential is a bit looser.
I guess the bearing centres the gear in place more rigidly so that the meshing needs to be tuned more carefully, without the bearing the central shaft gear can move a bit and that probably helps create less friction.
Anyway the AWD gears create a lot of friction in general so anything slightly not right will lead to a slower car.
I also found metal gears slowing the car down, again that could have been down to more friction or me not adjusting the meshing correctly.
A bit of a nightmare of a car to tune!
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Today i received bearing from x Ray and marka.
I'll try then and then i see.
Maybe i remove a Little materiale from the bearing slot or i male the spur Gear smaller where the bearing touch
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2016.12.05, 08:12 AM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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tested with Marka and X-Ray shielded bearing...still the same...
Definitivly a mesh problem beetween spur and differential..
Probably i have to istall a 0.1 shims to make the mesh a little more lose
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2016.12.05, 09:58 AM
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#19
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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it does sound like there is a tight mesh between the spur and the rear diff. If you remove the rear differential, with rear end installed with bearing, is the drivetrain free? If so, then it is definitely the mesh between the spur and the rear differential.
If that is the case, a differential shim set may be needed, now that the spur cannot move away from the diff gear as it is retained by the rear bearing. A couple shims on the longer side of the diff may help move the diff gear away from the spur pinion and free up the drivetrain.
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
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2016.12.05, 05:25 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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Houston we have a problem.
I've tried to push the car with my hands.
The car is without differential and without pinion.
With ball bearing on the spur Gear the car roll way less then without.
Then it's not the mesh beetween diff and spur i think.
The problem then is what Can lead to this problem or what i Can do to dmfix this?
Sanding down the part of the spur that go into the bearing?
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2016.12.05, 06:18 PM
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#21
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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According to the first post... The rear end pictured, is not Kyosho. It is atomic. http://www.rcatomic.com/atomic/index...oducts_id=5547
Could this be the wrong rear end in the picture? I would assume so, since the Kyosho DWS rear end comes stock with the VE pro.
It does sound like binding between the bearing and the spur... Hard to evaluate without holding the car.
Couple questions... Is the driveshaft original? Has it been removed before? With rear removed, does the driveshaft move fore/aft? is there much space between the spur and the chassis? When you install the rear end, does the spur bearing press Hard against the spur?
What could have happened, is the pinion on the front of the driveshaft could have slid off a little, causing the shaft to stick further out the rear... Just speculating here. Also, maybe the driveshaft isn't fully installed into the spur gear (note the notch on the shaft and spur gear). If the spur is inserted into the bearing alone in the rear end, does it spin free?
If you have the rear diff removed, you cannot evaluate by rolling the chassis, as the dogbones in the rear end will bind. Just spin the front wheels, or rotate the spur. You should be able to feel the resistance there.
Again, hard to evaluate without seeing it. I also have never seen an ma020, only ma010... Although I have used every rear end on the car that was available. Never had an issue with bearing at 98mm with DWS rear end. This is definitely an odd issue.
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
Last edited by EMU; 2016.12.05 at 06:29 PM.
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2016.12.06, 01:19 AM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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I have a stock rear end... I postes the Atomic One only becouse i can't find a photo pf the kyosho with the bearing istalled
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2016.12.06, 01:22 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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And never removed the driveshaft.
Front wheels are a Little more difficult to move with bearing on
Yeah the spur alone in the bearing on the rear end turn free.
It Can be the mainshaft not in linea with rear end.
But this Can be only a production problem and i rrally don't know how to fix
Last edited by Evil_Sephiroth; 2016.12.06 at 01:37 AM.
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2016.12.06, 01:31 AM
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#24
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Sephiroth
I have a stock rear end... I postes the Atomic One only becouse i can't find a photo pf the kyosho with the bearing istalled
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Thanks, was just trying to clarify.
The alternate bearings that you received, were they the same size? Perhaps a slightly thinner bearing may work better? Maybe bind less...
It's been some time since I have worked on my awd, not sure which bearing I used... In its latest setup it was 94mm (my preferred wheelbase for awd), and not sure if I have the bearing installed anymore.
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
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2016.12.06, 03:39 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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The bearing are 5x8x2.5 like kyosho say in the manuale.
Which size do you suggest?
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2016.12.06, 04:16 AM
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#26
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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Maybe try a 5x8x2mm bearing instead?
Do you have a local hobby shop near you? Should be able to source them somewhat easily for helicopter, blade 180 cfx
if you insert the spur alone into the rear end, does it still bind if you try to spin it?
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
Last edited by EMU; 2016.12.06 at 04:21 AM.
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2016.12.06, 04:52 AM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU
Maybe try a 5x8x2mm bearing instead?
Do you have a local hobby shop near you? Should be able to source them somewhat easily for helicopter, blade 180 cfx
if you insert the spur alone into the rear end, does it still bind if you try to spin it?
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Nope..
It work well.
The problem is only when i have the car fully assembled with bearing on.
With or without differential change nothing.
I never removed the main shaft. And It comes with bearing preistalled.
No shop here i have to buy online
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2016.12.06, 04:56 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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I'm starting to think about putting my spur Gear under a cnc milling machine and removing 0,05 mm of material where the spur touch the bearing...
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2016.12.06, 07:08 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lavagna (GE)
Posts: 36
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Probably i solved something..
I sanded a little the spur gear, istalled the rear end with all the screw lose, and after the spur gear went in the bearing i tighted all the screw...seems to go better
I think i have to 3d print my own 98mm spur gear with less diameter.
Last edited by Evil_Sephiroth; 2016.12.06 at 07:10 AM.
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2016.12.06, 02:54 PM
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#30
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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Sounds good...
3d printing gears does not work very well at this small of a scale. Machined gears work best, and molded gears work ok. 3d printed gears have too low resolution to be fully accurate, and depending on process, they lack the durability. 3d printing is good for many applications, however, gears is not one of them. I tried 3d printing wheels, and the tolerances were not high enough for them to be good enough to use. Depending on orientation in the printer, you could have slightly oval wheels. That in a gear, would not be good.
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
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