2003.11.08, 12:07 AM
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#1
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Master of My Mini Domain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,241
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Maximizing a Nearly Stock Z for Carpet Racing
We have a small club that races on carpet. We are trying to keep the racing as affordable as possible so we are very tight on the rules. We are not totally against upgrades, but want to only allow upgrades that give the best cost/benefit ratio. We aren't worried about speed, the track is small, so the stock motors are fine, but we'd like to maximize traction without spending a lot. Right now we don't allow foams, seems you'd need to get new ones nearly every race, but we allow any Kyosho rubber tire. We also allow aftermarket upper "shocks" but not oil-filled ones, friction only. We also allow any front springs or H or O plate. So given those rules, what setup would most likely maximize traction? Are there any other inexpensive aftermarket upgrades we can allow that would get us even better traction?
David
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2003.11.08, 12:42 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 583
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the BEST bang for the buck is foam tires. $10-$12 you get 4 tires mounted on rims. one set last me 4 full race days. When we run rubber we race with 8 degree or or 10 degree tires but there good for one day of racing. but you can get 4 sets for $10-$12. Stock motors i'm sure you can get longer life.
The harder the front tire or heavier the front spring the more it will push also giving the car the feel of more rear traction.
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2003.11.08, 01:03 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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for me the tires are the cheapest and most often overlooked hop up you can get.... so experiment with a few with different degrees of hardness... as a general rule the rear tires should be softer than the front tires...
next to that, i would get bearings, and carbon fiber h-plate.... another step further would probably be a ball diff... that's it...
have fun and hope this helps...
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2003.11.08, 10:15 AM
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#4
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Master of My Mini Domain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,241
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Quote:
for me the tires are the cheapest and most often overlooked hop up you can get.... so experiment with a few with different degrees of hardness... as a general rule the rear tires should be softer than the front tires...
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Right now I run the softest Kyosho rubber in the rear, and some harder tires on the front. I may try to run some foams myself and see how they work and wear before I allow them in our club racing. I'm guessing I can get them in the race shop here? We ran all last season on the same tire though, with 30 minute races, and I still am running the same tires, I can't imagine foams would last nearly that long, but it my be a worthy trade off.
Quote:
next to that, i would get bearings, and carbon fiber h-plate.... another step further would probably be a ball diff... that's it...
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We all have bearings, we messed with homemade O-plates, didn't work too well, but I'll buy some carbon H and O plates here and see how they work. The ball diff's a bit pricey, would it make that much differance? I don't want these guys to sink a bunch of money into their Z's right now, I want them to buy OL's so they can play with me.
David
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2003.11.09, 08:26 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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Quote:
The ball diff's a bit pricey, would it make that much differance? I don't want these guys to sink a bunch of money into their Z's right now...
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a cheap alternative is to open up the gear diff and pack it with some thick grease.... you can also experiment with using different kinds of grease in terms of viscosity... thick vs. thin grease...
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2003.11.10, 01:20 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: South St. Louis County
Posts: 360
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Slowing down the diff with thick grease is a cheap way to improve how your Z handles. I packed one diff of the 6 cars I use for my party business. Guess which car came in first almost every time? This really made a beliver out of me.
If you have old foam tires from your 1/10th scale cars use that foam to create foam tires for your Z.
Cut the foams off the old wheels in strips just a little wider than the Z wheels. Glue (CA) the foam onto Z wheels. Use an old Z axle or a wheel arbor made by Z-Speed and sold by Mini Z Racer to true the wheels. We use a drill press and a dremel sanding drum.
The arbor sells for $15 and is well worth the money. If you and your buds go in together on it you can save a bundle by making your own tires. Trust me hard foam tires work great and last a long time.
__________________
Bob Tierney
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2003.11.10, 02:00 PM
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#7
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Mini-Z Tuner
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Malta NY USA
Posts: 99
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Tires, tires, tires. It always comes down to tires. IMHO the tires on these little beasts (even the rubber ones) are probably the biggest factor in overall handling.
Car suddenly isn't quite hooking up like it was? Chances are nothing is broken, nothing went out of whack.. ..the tires simply went away on you. At that point you can either begin to tune the car to suit the tires on there now (which are only going to get worse) or you can just swap out your spent tires for new ones.
Yesterday I took my car (and all of the rear tires I had in my toolbox.. ...like 9-10 pairs) to the track. On a fresh charge, I did a couple of laps with each set, making no changes to the car setup other than the rear tires each time.
What I observed was 9-10 different handling behaviours from that car. Now I only use 2 varieties of rubber.. ..Kyo 30's and 50's so the results were pretty interesting to say the least!!
Anyway (back to the subject at hand), you could allow for lowering the cars via shims, cutting coil springs, etc. That would be inexpensive and allows for different handling characteristics which can yeild sensibly the same results as more/less traction.
-Trevor
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2003.11.10, 02:09 PM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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He who maximizes his Stock Z, no longer has a Stock Z
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2003.11.10, 07:08 PM
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#9
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Master of My Mini Domain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,241
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Uhh...notice the caption says, "Nearly Stock". We are just trying to get the best bang for the buck, keep costs to all the racers low yet have the best racing possible. I already ordered some foams and O plates from the shop here, as well as their cheap ball diff, and will do some experimenting to see what which parts are the most worthwhile.
David
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2003.11.10, 08:22 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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two stories...
story1
on one of my fully hopped up mr01, it baffled me why it kept on spinning out... changed and tried everything.... soft, mid, hard front springs.... soft, mid, hard roll springs... nothing... soft, medium hard h-plate... nothing...
well after about an hour of thinking... somebody suggested that i try changing tires... turned out that he was right... i just needed to change the tires and the car was hooked up.
story2
in one of the races one guy showed up with a almost stock car in the mod class... he had if i can remember it right... an x-speed, bearings and foam rears... aside from his set up, it was his skill that kept him in the race.... needless to say you need not spend a lot to keep in the running...
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2003.11.10, 08:41 PM
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#11
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Master of My Mini Domain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,241
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Herman, skill is something we are lacking. Actually, the track is very small with tight lanes, so we need a cars that are pretty hooked up just to get around. I think the foam tires will do the trick, the O plates will probably help as well. I probably won't even touch that ball diff if I don't need to. Seems I have bad enough luck with those things in 1/10 racing.
David
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2003.11.11, 09:48 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: South St. Louis County
Posts: 360
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The only items I would add to your list are ball bearings and aluminum wheel locknuts. These two items can keep your cars almost maintenance free.
The ball diffs really help to put the power to the track evenly. In the mean time put some wheel bearing greas or some other super thick grease in your gear diff. It will help take a little oversteer out of the car.
The foams will make the greatest impact on your handling. If you use tire sauce only use it on the rear tires.
Bearings, ball diffs, aluminum locknuts and the right tires are all you need to get the car right. Next step is to practice and get your driving right.
Good luck!
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Bob Tierney
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2003.11.11, 07:46 PM
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#13
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Master of My Mini Domain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,241
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We were using the bearings and wheel nuts already last year. I believe I already filled the diff with heavy automotive wheel bearing grease, but it may be time to freshen it. I think the foams will probably do the trick. It's hard to get much from practice when your car is sideways most of the time. We'll be racing on a much tighter track this year so I want the cars to be more stable so we can have better racing in those tight 2' lanes. hopefully my order from the race shop here will be here by Thursday when we plan to work some more on the track and play a bit, but I haven't received notification of shipment, so if they haven't shipped it already then it's not likely.
David
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2003.11.14, 03:54 PM
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#14
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Mini-Z Novice
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 32
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have a pic of your track by chance?
L.R.
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2003.11.14, 07:26 PM
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#15
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Master of My Mini Domain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,241
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Quote:
have a pic of your track by chance?
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It's attached. The tires didn't show up until today, so won't have a chance to try them until next Thursday.
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