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Old 2009.03.12, 07:00 PM   #1
jonnywachter
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building a pan car

If you guys were to build a competitive stock pan car, what parts would you use? All you have is the electronics board. So you have to get EVERYTHING else. What would you need and what parts would you use? This is what i have so far. Please tell me what i should change or what i need, or what might be overkill.
so far...
3Racing gold king pins
Atomic VDS II body
Atomic servo gears
Atomic servo pins
Atomic 2mm lock nuts
Atomic c-ring for mini-z kingpin
Atomic Front spring up and down adjustable post.
PN Racing screws
Reflex t-plate
PN derlin wheel front 0
PN derlin wheel rear +3
Servo saver
Skeleton chassis smoke grey
Reflex wide track front end
PN LCG mount
PN Ceramic ball diff
Atomic Bearings
Atomic 1000w
GPM derlin knuckle 1 degree
Atomic DDS

Things to figure out:
stock motor
tires
batteries

Last edited by jonnywachter; 2009.03.12 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 2009.03.12, 08:23 PM   #2
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Looks like you have almost everything covered...

I would avoid the GPM Delrin knuckle, and maybe the 3Racing kingpin. In general, try to keep the same knuckle/kingpin together. They allways seem to work best that way.

What class is this car for? Mod or stock? If it is for the PN mod class, if you are not an expert driver, I would suggest a Speedy 07BB. The motor wont be too fast, and you should be able to get more laps than with a faster motor.

For a 70t class, try Atomic 8w radial rear tires and 40d AW tread in the front. It really makes a good balance. I run 8w radial rears with 40d slicks in the front for a 70t pan class. The orange/blue car in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5bZddjlxqk

My setup:
ASF chassis
PN FMV3 mount
PN ML disc damper
stock top shock, yellow spring
Kyosho hard carbon t-plate
Atomic vII diff with 13/52 64p gear ratio
PN 70t motor
Kyosho kingpins
PN 1.5d knuckles
Reflex WTF (I only use PN knuckles with WTF, offer a little more toe in than other knuckles)
Green front spring
ATM limiters and preload shims
ATM 0mm front dish wheel, 40d slick
ATM TS 3mm rear wheel, 8d radial
ATM VDS body
Avid bearings
ATM alloy nuts

Batteries: R1Wurks 990
If I use the TRP cells, I need to gear down a little. The R1Wurks have more punch, but not as much top end.

Your parts look alright, although I would suggest PN knuckles with the WTF setup. With other knuckles it feels a little toe out. I personally prefer Kyosho t-plates to any other manufacturer, although I have yet to try the hard Reflex t-plate. The soft and medium are too soft for my local track.
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Old 2009.03.12, 09:21 PM   #3
jonnywachter
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Thank you for the advise. Im planning to run it in the 70t pan class. I have 7 years of offroad racing experiance, and i am fully sponsored by Team Losi, GRP, Airtronics, Nitrotane, Spektrum, and Vynal graphics unlimited, so im definitely not "new" to the game. The info u gave me was exactly what i was looking for, I greatly appreciate it.
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Old 2009.03.13, 01:46 AM   #4
tudor_47
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I would stay with the standard chassie from Kyosho as with the smoked chassie you will be missing 2 small pieces needed to attach the powercables to the board, and besides the original chassie is stronger and will not strip the threads as easily as the smoked one.
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Old 2009.03.13, 02:07 AM   #5
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3Racing gold king pins - These tend to be oversized, but if you polish them down and use looser knuckles, they are awesome! I usually just use stainless kingpins with a light polish and 3Racing knuckles

Atomic VDS II body - Great choice for a body, but check your club to see if it's legal.

Atomic servo gears - I've only got experience with Kyosho and PN delrin servo gears. If the Atomics are up to par, then you are GTG.

Atomic servo pins - No benefit over the stock Kyosho ones.

Atomic 2mm lock nuts - Be careful as most aftermarket locknuts are teh suck. The plastic inserts just don't hold. The Kyosho's are good as well as Reflex. I've heard that there is one version of the PN that are also really good.

Atomic c-ring for mini-z kingpin - No benefit over the stock Kyosho, but you won't get extra plastic parts.

Atomic Front spring up and down adjustable post - I really like the PN aluminum posts for their shorter heights. You can always shave posts to get your desired uptravel. Plastic/delrin is easier to shave. Delrin isn't a benefit if you run your posts inverted like we do. The Atomic fine adjustment shims are great, but I find that I rarely use them.

PN Racing screws - Good choice for swapping to 1.5mm hex, especially the titanium ones if you are trying to drop weight. Reflex also has a titanium 1.5mm hex screw set.

Reflex t-plate - I assume you mean 96mm. Great balance.

PN derlin wheel front 0 - Delrin can be hard to glue. Make sure you pick up some PN rubberized CA. The clear version won't leave nasty black marks on white wheels.

PN derlin wheel rear +3 - Same as above.

Servo saver - Stock Kyosho. Replace if worn. No better option.

Skeleton chassis smoke grey - Good for looks and the gold terminals. For ASF, you need to cut the holes for the ICS plug, bind button and antenna.

Reflex wide track front end - Great for stability and front end feel in transition. However, some tracks and driving styles will suit the increased scrub of a normal width front end. Personally, I never run anything else.

PN LCG mount - Good choice. Make sure you get the latest version with the updated damper post arm mounting.

PN Ceramic ball diff - Good choice. Also might want to consider 64p upgrade and a PN lightweight or 3Racing titanium shaft.

Atomic Bearings - Reflex bearings. Best performance. Low price. Keep spares for extra front wheels or diff thrust bearing replacement.

Atomic 1000w - What are you using this for? Try Kyosho 5000w for the front.

GPM derlin knuckle 1 degree - Pass. Try 3Racing aluminum knuckles. Super smooth, and they are cheap enough to have 0/1/2 for tuning.

Atomic DDS - Good choice. Atomic delrin disks are really good. Another good choice is the new PN. Has nice accommodations for the ASF board. Make sure you prep the disks and plate with sandpaper.

Things to figure out:
stock moto
r - Dependent on your club/race. PN 70T stock motor is the norm, but some allow the Atomic "stock" motor which is significantly faster. Make sure you break in the PN 70T correctly. http://www.reflexracing.net/motor_break_in.asp

tires - Tire choice is dependent on track and preference. On RCP, Reflex SSG is unbeatable. The higher price is offset by their longevity. We usually run one pair for an entire race weekend practice/quals/mains in stock class. On super high grip RCP, Kyosho 20's and PN 6/8/10 can be used to dial in your rear traction level. Front tire is a PRIMARY tuning option. PN 10/15/20, Kyosho 30, Atomic 40. For carpet, try Atomic tires.

batteries - R1Wurks 750's if they are available. TRP 900's otherwise.
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Last edited by ruf; 2009.03.13 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 2009.03.13, 02:43 AM   #6
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hmmmm....i say go all pn.....
batteries, r1 wurks...tires for rcp, pn tires are developed really well for rcp(reflex ssg work good on low grip tracks....)
pn pan car body is raced by the best mini-z drivers all over the world.....(its true)
and i use the standard width front end with the pn 1.5 castor bar and 2deg knuckels and +3 front wheels i love tire scrub.....no need to let out of the throttle
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Old 2009.03.13, 12:04 PM   #7
jonnywachter
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Well this is the final list of parts I got between ebay, rckenon, and this website. I was going to wait because the guy who got me into this was going to take me to his practice track and let me run a car to see if i really liked it. After figuring all the parts out i just couldn't wait tho!

Team Orion 1100RT AAA CELLS Ultra high Capacity ORI1320
Reflex Racing Mini-Z MR-02 Wide Track Front End (WTF) Kit - Matte Black
3 Racing Kyosho Mini Z MR-02 King Pin MZII-010
PN Racing MR015/MR02 Alm Camber Steering Knuckle 1.5 Deg (Silver)
PN Mini-Z MR-02 MM/MR-02 LM LCG V4 98-102mm Motor Mount - Silver
PN Racing 64 Pitch Delrin Spur Gear & Pinion Kit
PN Mini-Z MR-02 Ceramic Ball Diff Set
PN Racing Mini-Z PNWC 70 Turn Official Stock Motor
PN Racing MR02 Machine Cut Delrin 21mm Wheel Rear 3 (White)
PN Racing MR02 Machine Cut Delrin 21mm Wheel Front 0 (White)
PN Racing Alm. 2mm Wheel Lock Nut Black
PN Racing MR02 Multi Length Graphite Disk Damper Set (Silver)
PN Racing Mini-Z Screws Set
Atomic Mini-Z Ball Bearing Set
Atomic Mini-Z Front Spring Collar - 3.8/4.0/4.5mm
Atomic Kyosho Mini-Z MR-02 Front Spring Set AR-013-A
Atomic Mini-Z MR-02 VDS II Body (98mm WB)
Kyosho Mini-Z High Precision Delrin Servo Gear AR-229
Kyosho MR02 Servo Saver Assembly
Kyosho Mini-Z Servo Gear Shaft Set
Kyosho Mini-Z C-ring 2pcs (for MR-015, MR-02) AR-074
Kyosho Mini Z FRP Rear Sus. Plate Set (MM) AR-246
Kyosho Mini Z MR-02 SP Skeleton Chassis MZF205GM

I didn't get tires, I figured ill wait till I get to the track since their cheap. Also now im a little sceptic on the FRP rear suspension plate. But im pretty sure those are things I will be able to get at the track and install pretty quick. Thanks for all the suggestions. It seems that there are so many parts out there that everyone has their own preference depending on driving style. Btw im going to be using an AM board out of an F1, would it be necessary to "fett" it for stock?
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Old 2009.03.17, 11:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnywachter View Post
Thank you for the advise. Im planning to run it in the 70t pan class. I have 7 years of offroad racing experiance, and i am fully sponsored by Team Losi, GRP, Airtronics, Nitrotane, Spektrum, and Vynal graphics unlimited, so im definitely not "new" to the game. The info u gave me was exactly what i was looking for, I greatly appreciate it.

Hi Jonnywachter

Let me first say welcome to the Miniz Racer forum and Welcome to Miniz's. It's nice to see some already accomplished drivers come try out the Miniz's.

I saw that you are planning on using an AM F1 PCB for your pan car and that you were considering fetting. Well, first check with your LHS to see if fetting is legal. Fetting for stock class will help give you more punch, do you really need it? Well, for most stock class you don't you just need a good and well broken in stock motor and a good set of batteries (preferrably matched sets) if you do decide to fet then I would not go any more then a 2x2 stack.

AM Miniz boards are very competitive however, given your background and 7 years experience with RC's I would highly recommend you try the 2.4ghz (ASF) Miniz. Everything about 2.4ghz PCB is better then the AM PCB(better break range, smoother and faster steering, smoother throttle response, more linear throttle, already has enough fets to run most motors).

Good Luck
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Old 2009.03.17, 01:05 PM   #9
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Thanks for the advice, I work at my LHS (Hot Rod Hobbies) but the place Im planning on racing at, is or was Kenon. Im not sure, I think the track moved, but I will check with them. I think Im going to stick with the AM PCB because from my experience with 2.4 systems, they are slower and just unreliable. Im sure what you are saying is true but Im not a fan of it. I use the Airtronics M11 and the 2.4 is KO, so mixing the two companies cant be good. Also Im planning to run the RCX, what would the rules be for that race?
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Old 2009.03.17, 01:26 PM   #10
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You work at Hot Rod? Dude, come down to OC/RC with the Davies. Kenon closed their track, but Grant opened up Pacific MZR in Upland - sweet track.

As for your assumptions about 2.4GHz, I think they are completely unfounded. The 2.4GHz KO cars have MUCH faster response than the AM cars. I know a lot of guys that use KO 2.4GHz ASF with M11 using the PN Racing adapter and it works great!
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Old 2009.03.17, 01:52 PM   #11
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Ok, well I dont have the money to get 2.4 stuff at the moment unless some one wants to give it away. I already spent a lot of money on the car because I was told the AM stuff was faster and thats what I had. Also I haven't even gotten everything yet because when I got the box it was unsealed and missing a lot of parts.
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Old 2009.03.17, 02:13 PM   #12
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No worries. You can still rock the AM. I'd also pick up an autoscale like an Aston Martin DB9R or Nissan Skyline GT500 if you are going to stay 98mm. This way you can have some fun in the non-pancar classes too.
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Old 2009.03.17, 02:19 PM   #13
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Im really only into the pan car stuff
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Old 2009.03.17, 06:29 PM   #14
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but I did just order a Vauxhall BTCC Astra Coup. I really like this body style but its only 94mm
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Old 2009.03.18, 01:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnywachter View Post
Thanks for the advice, I work at my LHS (Hot Rod Hobbies) but the place Im planning on racing at, is or was Kenon. Im not sure, I think the track moved, but I will check with them. I think Im going to stick with the AM PCB because from my experience with 2.4 systems, they are slower and just unreliable. Im sure what you are saying is true but Im not a fan of it. I use the Airtronics M11 and the 2.4 is KO, so mixing the two companies cant be good. Also Im planning to run the RCX, what would the rules be for that race?
jonny,
u gotta grt out her and checkout my shop......i now carry a full line of pnracing parts as well as run a pancar points series....final race is this sunday.....cash pay out and lotsa fun
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