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Old 2019.09.15, 04:33 PM   #1
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2500kv motor

I had the chance to test a new 2500kv motor a couple days ago. GL racing has the 2500kv motor listed on their web page for sale now.

In theory, the 2500kv motor should spin 20000rpm @ 8v (value that I use for 2S lipo analysis), and 12,500rpm @ 5v (value that I use for 4x NiMh). The 3500kv motor is about 17,500rpm @ 5v.

I have just received a brushless motor analyzer, so will try to pull some actual numbers when I get some time.

I tested on my GLR, which I adapted to use my McLaren 12C Kyosho hard body. I have a brass chassis, and the car weighed 156g with I-Lap transponder in place.

Initial impressions were not so good, cogging on the low end and the motor was running quite warm. My ESC was adjusted for a faster motor and after I increased punch and reduced timing, the motor livened up off the slow corners, and remained cool for the entire time in use. I ran about 3 or 4 packs through the car, and the fastest lap time that I could lay down was about 7.4s on the expanded mini-tile track which I was running at. I was with my long time racing buddy Roland, who was also testing a 2500kv motor in a PN chassis with LiPo, and using his AAA EVO with 3500kv for comparison. He ran 7.4s as well with the 2500kv, and 7.5s with the EVO.

I had run my GLR geared 12/53, which is just about the perfect gearing for this motor/power combination on this circuit. Top speed felt very similar to the 3500kv @ 5v.

This is all just initial testing to get a feel for what the new motor can offer. Further testing will be needed to see if there could be a balance in power between AAA 3500 and 2S 2500, but that was not the real purpose of this test.

What I plan to do is outfit an EVO with a LiPo harness, and collect data on 4xAAA 3500kv with multiple gear options, and then swap the motor and install the LiPo and test multiple gear options in the same car. This would have more of a direct comparison since then we can see with the same setup what performance differences there are in power and how it effects lap times and handling. I will also be trying to keep weight the same when I do this by using weights under the LiPo in the Kyosho chassis.

After making the ESC adjustments, and changing the front tire on the car to better suit the circuit, it was quite fun and power delivery was consistent from the top of the pack to the bottom.

It is too early to say whether a future LiPo based chassis could be adopted into stock class racing, but this is the closest that we have been. In the current structure, this would make for a good modified option for small tracks, or ones with low traction where there is difficulty getting the power down. I expect that it would be an excellent option for the new GLF F1 car.
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Old 2019.09.15, 04:52 PM   #2
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Old 2019.09.15, 07:37 PM   #3
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Awesome first review ! Right now no club or venue can in good faith allow modular electronic chassis which are only designed around lipo batteries to participate in their traditional stock class with 70t/3500 nimh cars, it would simply be way faster...Perhaps this motor is a small step towards that direction but maybe even a slower motor would be the medicine for that cure. ( if technically possible to manufacture even lower than 2500kv) ...spec gearing for lipo cars in stock class also can go a long way but curiously not seeing any group exploring that...maybe it considered somewhat of an abstract idea, not sure.

In the meantime 2500kv/Lipo may end up a good choice for low traction Super Stock or like you said the GLF1.

Last edited by mugler; 2019.09.15 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 2019.09.15, 08:41 PM   #4
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A stock class with lipo and brushless motor would definitely tighten the gap between racers, since the are fewer tricks at play with this technology compared to brushed motors and nimh cells. The preliminary testing done was not a direct comparison, but just to get a general idea about what these 2500kv motors can do.

The initial results show similar speed, but no direct comparison can be made at this time.

Gear limits may lower the top speeds, which is all good for circuits designed with speed in mind. But, small circuits or technical layouts where top speed is not necessarily the limiting factor may show completely different results based on the power and range in which the motors are making their power.

I am not taking steps trying to shoehorn lipo/brushless into the stock class unless I feel that there is a level playing field. There are many traditional mini-z racers who still have barely accepted brushless motors in the stock class, so lipo and brushless would be asking a lot at this time.

On the plus side, converting a brushless mini-z for lipo user i.a.s relatively simple, although we will need to have r246 re-release their LiFe battery clips or manufacture new ones for direct drop in swaps of we were to move towards this direction.

I had pressed Kyosho a little while back about switching to lipo with slow motors, but their response was that they wished to stay with the AAA cell for the foreseeable future.

It is hard to say whether this motor will be comparable, or if they can even make a lower KV motor of this size... but I think it would brrrrr a step forward in opening up the scale to newer manufacturers and racers if stock classes can have a lipo presence. I personally am tired of buying AAA cells, matching and maintaining them in order to be competitive in stock classes. But, as started above, I do not want to push the new technology if it pushes mini-z veterans away.
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Old 2019.09.15, 09:55 PM   #5
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Lipo conversion on PN chassis is super simple due to it's more open design and can be done for both Lipo AAA's or traditional square packs for which they even offer a harness ( PN part # 700255) which possibly can be adopted to fit on an MR-03 chassis .

Lots of on point items have been mentioned in your post ... in short though I agree, Lipo-Only Stock class is still way in the future. A third way for modular electronics chassis to participate in present day stock would be offering a nimh main chassis option with a custom tray of some sort
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Old 2019.09.15, 11:10 PM   #6
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There is a LOT more to converting there chassis to the PN chassis than there would be to use the r246 battery clips and wire up a harness. The other advantage to using an mr03 vs a PN chassis here is that there are more options to add ballast under the batteries. With the PN chassis being bottom loaded, all of the ballast would need to be in the center line or above the battery (which would be less than ideal).

The other advantage to this method, is that there car can still use AAA cells if you want a multipurpose car for stock and modified running with a 3500kv motor.
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Old 2019.09.15, 11:29 PM   #7
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PN chassis on aaa lipo mode is a 5 minute solder job away to convert back to nimh but still not practical to switch back-forth on the track, it would have to be a dedicated car..PN with harness installed is a longer conversion back to nimh. They do offer a brass t-bar clamp to add some additional weight on the bottom but not all the way to 160 (current min) the go to method for the rest of the weight i believe is the use of heavier less messaged bodies.

So the MR-03 can still use nimh with the harness attached?
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Old 2019.09.15, 11:49 PM   #8
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Yes, that's the way that I setup my supersport car for the PN race. O just attached a harness to the pwr terminals and could put AAA cells in or the cheap lipo I had purchased from amazon. I used the r246 weight set which fits under the cells, and the LiFe battery clips which allow for more clearance on the lipo cells. It is the car that I used to test AAA 3500kv 14/53. I just swapped the pinion from the 10t superstock setup and went to normal battery clips and removed the weights. 2 minute changeover at most.
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