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Old 2013.03.07, 09:33 AM   #31
Kay-Dee
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We are sportsman enough to do it without any tire treatments but the compound is still in the track.
In other series which will held here its allowed
The troubles starts in early days, we all run on carpet or painted wooden surfaces. When we started using RCP Tracks everybody was still using tire with high parts of silicon in. After a while it was decided to switch to special Kyosho tires because new rules was given by Kyosho (Kyosho supported our racing series). It was extremly slippery and a few clubs starts using compound.
To stay in competition a few driver started the same way here since then traction compound was used till we change to the rough side.

I only know one club in germany who is driving on the smooth side and any tire treatment is forbidden. They had much more grip then all the others but less then textured sided tracks.
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Old 2013.03.07, 09:38 AM   #32
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Good info, thanks.
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Old 2013.03.07, 10:35 AM   #33
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to add something to Kay-Dees statement:

properly broken in both sides will have enough grip to run races - the textured side is of course more grippy than the smooth side and also more tire consuming. I think yasui had a good description of what to expect when changing sides some posts before.

But once silicon tires debris and / or traction compound is on the RCP track it is hard to be competitive without it - especially when the rules allowed it and some of the better drivers used it.
As everybody was happy with the switch to textured RCP nobody really cared until now to find a way to clean the smooth side, but I hope we will have a solution prior to our scheduled PN Regional in August.
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Old 2013.03.07, 08:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer-HH View Post
to add something to Kay-Dees statement:

properly broken in both sides will have enough grip to run races - the textured side is of course more grippy than the smooth side and also more tire consuming. I think yasui had a good description of what to expect when changing sides some posts before.

But once silicon tires debris and / or traction compound is on the RCP track it is hard to be competitive without it - especially when the rules allowed it and some of the better drivers used it.
As everybody was happy with the switch to textured RCP nobody really cared until now to find a way to clean the smooth side, but I hope we will have a solution prior to our scheduled PN Regional in August.

for cleaning the track all we did was vacuum the track then mop it with a damp mop just to pick up any residual dust.... we never allow any silicone tire or traction compound at our track and we have never used the smooth side until this year.... we are using rrr06 and depending on the driver...rsf15/20 rfx15 fronts
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Old 2013.03.12, 12:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARN View Post
If Brain was not willing to help me with front tires I would have never done as well as I did at that race... cuz all I had was 15F and softer.....
Who is this "Brain" you speak off...

LOL, I can't tell you how many times people type that.

Glad to help. I was still running 15's on my setup
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Old 2013.03.12, 12:48 PM   #36
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Tires should last down to the last thin molecules of rubber IMO. I say this only because I have witnessed this a few times and have done it a bunch of times. To me, the setup of the car determines how much tire you need also, the balance of tires front to back will determine how fast the rears or fronts wear out.

I have had some very basic setups on a few of my cars that get about the same amount of traction from month to month and the tire wear has not affected the cars handling one bit. I have had other cars where it seemed they would only perform when they had the freshest set of rears on. This is why I usually try to tune my cars on mid-level worn tires first before I try to put new ones on. If I get the car to run decently on the worns, I know I've got the car fairly balanced. I usually start out with worn 30s on the front and some well-worn 20 slicks on the rear, once I get the car about where I want it I will then proceed to dip into my not-so-worn tire collection. If I really want to get the car up to speed, I'll try the brand-new tires only after I've tried different plates and springs to see if they would get the car closer first.

I do still wipe my tires clean with WD40 and this in itself can really affect a setup. In all of my "testing" I've found that the WD doesn't do a thing to the RCP. This might have a lot to do with how I can keep my tires going as long a I do.
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Old 2013.03.12, 12:54 PM   #37
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age, use and environmental conditions play a big part in how the surface performs. this holds true however for any surface really. the degree of deviation may be less though.

i'm always amazed at the length the competitive racers will go to squeeze out that little extra bit from everything. i'm impressed with the level of detail and effort put into the most minute of issues such as putting a tire on a wheel. i wouldn't do it but i'm not a super competitive racer either i've never trued a tire and at most tape them on. occasionally someone will glue the edges but i typically don't bother. i change tries maybe once every two to three months. that is really based on my racing 2-3 times a month at most as well. there are a 100 shades of grey when it comes to racing and preparation.
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Old 2013.03.12, 01:19 PM   #38
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I got a chance to do some testing/tuning on the smooth side of the RCP. My short wheelbase 50t car was tuned pretty well on the textured side so I left it alone. I did all my experimentation with a 98mm chassis I just put together. After a couple hours of driving and tuning it seemed like I had a decent setup going, but I wanted to be able to drive the car more consistently. I put the appropriate tires on for the smooth side on my short car and with minor setup changes it was apparent that this was the way I wanted to go.

I found that adding a bit of negative camber helped the car rotate. I also was able to learn a bit more about how to drive on the smooth side. I found that I had to wait a little longer for the car to rotate on this side of the track than I did on the same layout textured side. My right hand movements throughout the corner changed a bit, and I found that I could not be as aggressive with the left hand. The smooth side offers less rolling resistance. My car accelerated quicker, but did not slow down as quickly. I found that turning up my steering travel and using wheel scrub as a way to aid in slowing down the car seemed to help a little.

The tires I ended up using were the Kyosho 20 Radial in the rear and the PN 20 front on 19mm rims. I also figured out a little trick with the PN 20 front tires. I found that after a healthy dose of usage that the tires seemed to lose a bit of grip despite not wearing down much (these tires don't wear! love 'em!) To rejuvenate them I threw them on the tire truer and took off just enough material to fully expose a fresh layer of rubber. Just like new, I even had to break them in for half a pack with my steering travel at 40 like I would a brand new set.
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Old 2013.03.12, 01:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
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until I'd see what a truer will do for the handling at Bri-an-k-stans's race myself I would've said it was not needed either... it waas not just a little more squeeze, it was like my car was sprinkled with pixie dust !
i don't doubt the usefulness at all. i race with drivers like mike keely, bill, etc. who are extremely fast and they go through all the check lists, tweaking, etc. and it shows in their results. i personally am not invested as much in that level of competition, monetarily, technically or focus of attention. i really enjoy racing and having a good time doing it i even enjoy watching others go through all that effort as it's interesting to see and learn. i just don't care to go through it all myself i had a similar experience with well matched and cared for batteries... just night and day difference in performance.

has anyone run brushless on the smooth side? the combination would seem to be more tricky to setup than brushed due to the nature of the smooth side and characteristics of the brushless car. both would seem to permit carrying much more speed through the course.
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Old 2013.03.12, 02:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
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it was like my car was sprinkled with pixie dust !
most of our guys say I have that same effect on their cars as well.
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Old 2013.03.12, 02:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
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I just go a lot faster than you...
Calm down... I wasn't challenging your skill levels. That's why we have Time Trial layouts in HFAY.

I think this thread has been completely hijacked now.
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Old 2013.03.12, 09:13 PM   #42
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There are people who have a deep interest in this hobby and decide to travel to race at other locations. I have traveled to various tracks around the USA, farthest being in Myrtle Beach.

The PNWC is just more than a race. It allows people to make new friends and share their knowledge with others, which in turn helps others back at home tracks.

As for the smooth side for the PNWC, I will try it this weekend and post some tips.
Well said, Luke! Ill be awaiting your thoughts and how your KIY does.
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Old 2013.03.14, 04:41 AM   #43
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Arch, looks like we need this thread split in two. One for discussing the PNWC surface, and the other for setup tips for the smooth side of RCP. I'd start this new one, but not sure of the best location, Setups or Race Tracks, Track Layouts, Track Accessories My next post should go in the new thread Thanks!
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Old 2013.03.14, 04:50 AM   #44
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As a result of the PNWC change in track surface this year, I flipped my small home track over to the smooth side to see what it is like.

The first thing I noticed is it seems quieter (or maybe my hearing just got even worse over night). And with the lighter background, cars stood out more.

My stock 70T HSV didn't need any setup changes. Rear grip was very good and my front grip, which was too high on the rough side, was better.

My mod car on the other hand with Mosler body and PN TDS rear end developed serious understeer. It was the setup I used on LGR's new carpet track in Myrtle Beach wih K20R rears and K40 slick fronts. Switching to K40R fronts (with the tread almost worn off) helped a little.

Will keep working and posting, but so far I think I like it!
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Old 2013.03.14, 08:37 AM   #45
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When we used to run slick side it always seemed like there was a ton more traction than the rough... I'm starting to think that track temperature has more effect on the smooth side's traction level than it does on the rough side.
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