2011.02.27, 10:08 AM
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#16
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A.K.A Pucho
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 491
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Ok time to wake this sleeping dragon of a thread. Now I have been a fan of the competiton company for most the 2 1/2yrs that i have been mini-z racing. Just recently I have taken the strides to change a few of my setups to PN and this front end was the reason why. I am all about aethstetics which is that I keep my rides all the same company cause that is how they are manufactured and tested. Now the big question Is there a possibility of this design being made for narrow cars? As of recently i have been more succesful in my narrow setups then wide and would like to try some PN Narrow setups.
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Ulysses Vazquez AKA Pucho
http://www dreamkillrracing.com
Dream Killr Racing "Come Get Some"
Website Admin
Broke A$$ Racing "Off Road Assasin's"
Maj's Hobby/White Knuckle Racing/GF Racing/Action RCMS/Brooklyn Hobbies/DG Designs
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2011.02.28, 02:31 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PadrinoNY
Ok time to wake this sleeping dragon of a thread. Now I have been a fan of the competiton company for most the 2 1/2yrs that i have been mini-z racing. Just recently I have taken the strides to change a few of my setups to PN and this front end was the reason why. I am all about aethstetics which is that I keep my rides all the same company cause that is how they are manufactured and tested. Now the big question Is there a possibility of this design being made for narrow cars? As of recently i have been more succesful in my narrow setups then wide and would like to try some PN Narrow setups.
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So I take it you like the PN MR03-Version Front Double A-Arm Suspension?
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2011.02.28, 09:17 AM
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#18
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A.K.A Pucho
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 491
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Oh yeah it's great. The only problem I have is that PN doesn't really cater to the narrow scene and there is alot of local clubs that run this in there program... Then again alot of the locals just use the competitors equipment but they hate the fact of low availability...... AT LEAST GIVE US THE ALUMINUM LOWER TOWER BAR.....
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Ulysses Vazquez AKA Pucho
http://www dreamkillrracing.com
Dream Killr Racing "Come Get Some"
Website Admin
Broke A$$ Racing "Off Road Assasin's"
Maj's Hobby/White Knuckle Racing/GF Racing/Action RCMS/Brooklyn Hobbies/DG Designs
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2011.02.28, 09:31 AM
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#19
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White Knuckle Racing
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
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dont mean to hijack a thread but a reverse kingpin narrow setup would be sick... i would definitly like to have that...
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2011.02.28, 10:48 AM
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#20
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A.K.A Pucho
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorWKR
dont mean to hijack a thread but a reverse kingpin narrow setup would be sick... i would definitly like to have that...
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I'm telling you. I think we have to start patenting our ideas and forward them to Philip.....
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Ulysses Vazquez AKA Pucho
http://www dreamkillrracing.com
Dream Killr Racing "Come Get Some"
Website Admin
Broke A$$ Racing "Off Road Assasin's"
Maj's Hobby/White Knuckle Racing/GF Racing/Action RCMS/Brooklyn Hobbies/DG Designs
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2011.02.28, 11:06 AM
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#21
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorWKR
dont mean to hijack a thread but a reverse kingpin narrow setup would be sick... i would definitly like to have that...
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I have been using reverse kingpin on my both of my narrow cars for a while... definitely good. Would love to see a lower tower bar for it....
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
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2011.03.29, 04:53 AM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 129
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Will PN start to make spare parts for the double A-ARM.
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2011.03.29, 10:33 AM
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#23
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Need a mini z Painted????
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,569
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What spares specifically are you looking for? Pretty much all the hardware is the same as the 02 double A ARM, the upper and lower arms are the same. The upper bar and lower bar are different.
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DG Designs
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2011.06.12, 04:25 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 60
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Generation 2 Recommendation
Having experience with a couple PN Racing A-Arm Front Suspensions I have a couple questions and a suggestion.
First off I think that the A-Arm Suspension is an exquisite piece of machined aluminum and is a bargain at the price. However, having experienced this product first hand I tend to think that it fits the profile of nascent Chinese products that tend to look better than they perform, in that too many short cuts were made, to make early sales without longterm performance in mind.
Specifically, while the detailed machining is impressive, when examining the ball joints under magnification they are finished rather roughly. Additionally, it appears that cheap aluminum was used in their construction and anodization was relied upon to provide strength and marginally increase profits short term. I say that because I went about the trouble of deanodizing the pieces and lapping them smooth to decrease the obvious friction in the suspension from the machining imperfection in the joints. Unfortunately, in spite of the initial smoothness I obtained, this resulted in a rather dramatic degradation of the ball joint surface after about a month of heavy usage. So while it sounds good in lacking kingpin stiction, it brings its own friction problems to the table.
Personally, I think the joint between the upper A-Arm ($28 replacement expense) and the knuckle is a poor design. It is rough metal on rough metal. A much better decision and product would have resulted from a full delrin to metal joint even if it would not look as pretty.
Is there any possibility of a fix for this in a 2nd generation product that would be adaptable to customers who have purchased the 1st run? Additionally, is there any thought to making optional toe out tie rods (not the toe in ones)?
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2011.06.12, 08:39 PM
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#25
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PN RacingTEAM Driver
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glider
Having experience with a couple PN Racing A-Arm Front Suspensions I have a couple questions and a suggestion.
First off I think that the A-Arm Suspension is an exquisite piece of machined aluminum and is a bargain at the price. However, having experienced this product first hand I tend to think that it fits the profile of nascent Chinese products that tend to look better than they perform, in that too many short cuts were made, to make early sales without longterm performance in mind.
Specifically, while the detailed machining is impressive, when examining the ball joints under magnification they are finished rather roughly. Additionally, it appears that cheap aluminum was used in their construction and anodization was relied upon to provide strength and marginally increase profits short term. I say that because I went about the trouble of deanodizing the pieces and lapping them smooth to decrease the obvious friction in the suspension from the machining imperfection in the joints. Unfortunately, in spite of the initial smoothness I obtained, this resulted in a rather dramatic degradation of the ball joint surface after about a month of heavy usage. So while it sounds good in lacking kingpin stiction, it brings its own friction problems to the table.
Personally, I think the joint between the upper A-Arm ($28 replacement expense) and the knuckle is a poor design. It is rough metal on rough metal. A much better decision and product would have resulted from a full delrin to metal joint even if it would not look as pretty.
Is there any possibility of a fix for this in a 2nd generation product that would be adaptable to customers who have purchased the 1st run? Additionally, is there any thought to making optional toe out tie rods (not the toe in ones)?
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we have done some testing with delrin and molded plastic arms but it didn't amount to any thing.... understand that the AA arm front end for the MR03 uses many of the same parts from the MR02. i have never changed my upper and lower arms however i do change my knuckles from time to time ... but not for the reason u state i have changed them due to the wear from the tie rod
my front ends stay butter smooth withe minimal slop and work great! 02 or 03but i maintain my front ends on a regular basis as with the rest of my car!
on the toe out issue... the toe bars that come with the kit is 0 to + toe
if you would like toe out u will need to obtain the +2 +1.5 +1 standard wide MR03 toe bars
Last edited by yasuji; 2011.06.13 at 05:47 PM.
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2011.06.12, 09:23 PM
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#26
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MINI-Z BODY NUT
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: pa.
Posts: 5,028
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Agreed....under semi regular use, i havent replaced any parts yet with regular maintenance.....and smooth!
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DG DESIGNS - PN RACING - MANTISWORX
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2011.06.12, 09:35 PM
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#27
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Guest
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I have driven and held the PN a arms. 02 and 03. Both are extremely smooth from the factory with delrin balls in the upper arms. I never had to polish anything. If anything, you could have tried the new teflon balls (only $5) to replace the black delrin ones.
Multiple locals have this a-arm on their 03's. None of them mention polishing the upper arms.
Last edited by blt456; 2011.06.12 at 10:09 PM.
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2011.06.13, 12:08 AM
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#28
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
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Glider, you should never deanodize the aluminum parts, for reasons you already understand -- the surface anodizing is aluminum oxide, harder than the base aluminum underneath, which makes it a better material to line the joint with than bare aluminum. If you deanodize the joint we really can't help if the joint gets rough later on. To do it properly, lap the joints as they are with a polishing compound on the anodizing. The result will be smooth AND long lasting, and this procedure is actually listed in the manual so you should've tried it first.
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2011.06.13, 01:59 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by color01
Glider, you should never deanodize the aluminum parts, for reasons you already understand -- the surface anodizing is aluminum oxide, harder than the base aluminum underneath, which makes it a better material to line the joint with than bare aluminum. If you deanodize the joint we really can't help if the joint gets rough later on. To do it properly, lap the joints as they are with a polishing compound on the anodizing. The result will be smooth AND long lasting, and this procedure is actually listed in the manual so you should've tried it first.
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Hi Brian,
Yeah, I found out the hard way :-(. I also saw the info elsewhere about using polish on the anodized surface and tried that first. Trust me when I say that the imperfections in the surface can in no substantial way be addressed in the manner suggested. Moving the suspension up and down a few times with Mothers polish will essentially do nothing to a hardened anodized surface. Perhaps the best solution is to just run it a long time and let the natural wear smooth it out.
I am considering the following hack now that I have some compromised pieces :-). Check out the attachment. To get this to work will take a bit of relief with a Dremel but could possibly end up being a more durable and friction free solution. Something along these lines would be a relatively easy improvement for a next version and could be adapted to existing systems. What do you think?
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2011.06.13, 02:10 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt456
I have driven and held the PN a arms. 02 and 03. Both are extremely smooth from the factory with delrin balls in the upper arms. I never had to polish anything. If anything, you could have tried the new teflon balls (only $5) to replace the black delrin ones.
Multiple locals have this a-arm on their 03's. None of them mention polishing the upper arms.
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I agree with you. However, the friction that is there is generated between the top a-arm and knuckle metal to metal surface. To get an idea of the source of the friction have a look at these surfaces under 8x magnification. And while it is smooth enough for a good product I believe if you look at it critically you will come to the conclusion that it is not as smooth as some other systems out there after one modifies them using polished kingpins. And that is the true competition if your choosey.
I am interested in finding those teflon balls you refer to (a small 4mm diameter size is needed*) to address the hack (previous post) I am considering. I will have a look for those!
*correction from initial post
Last edited by glider; 2011.06.13 at 03:50 PM.
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