Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2010.10.02, 08:21 PM   #1
Ridin24z
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
Lightbulb AWD 4 Brushless motors & smarter electronics?

Hi all, this is my first post here. Very excited about sharing new ideas here.

I have a hefty project in mind that involves a complete over haul of my AWD Mini-z.

Currently, I've owned this MA-010 for about a year and it has a few great modifications. Li-po, higher current FETs, atomic AWD motor and an awesome MR2 body and wheel set.

I was recently looking at a few companies that are engineering cars with brushless motors in each wheel. That means, no power loss in drive train, better braking control, no diffs, even battery recharging from braking!

I want to do something similar to my mini z.

With everything but the wheels and steering ripped of the car, there's plenty of space for batteries and control/power systems in there and I'm sure the wheels can be fitted with magnets and a tiny stator be built within.

The first question is, can commercially available RC brushless motors go slowly and smoothly enough for accurate control of the car? (I'm talking about having the car slowly creep while lightly touching the throttle).

As far as I know, trying to achieve this with such motors may result in a sort of stepper motor action. Is this correct? Would a finer motor be required?

On the electronics side of things, I was thinking about using a dsPIC or FPGA system (only ones I'm familiar with). Any alternatives? Bearing in mind that the system will control the following:

-Battery management
-Drive of all 4 motors (24 digital signals to FETs and 4 analogue feedback lines!!!)
-Steering servo control
-RC Demodulation
-Adjusting drive from MEMS??
-Data logging/relaying??
-Adjustable/Programmable settings for all these systems

I want all the electronics on one or two small board that can fit into the shell (SMD of course)

I have machining facilities and am comfortable with making a more adequate chassis.

I know it sounds like a tall order but I what to turn this great little car into an engineering masterpiece!

Some may argue that it wont be a mini-z any more and it'll ruin the car, but personally, I'd like to open the car to be so much better =]

All in that great GTR shell ^_^

Thanks, all comments and ideas welcome.

Raj.
Ridin24z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.10.02, 11:05 PM   #2
pedrocamp
Ain'tSoldEm
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 859
Quite a tall order as you say but I would like to see what you come up with. It is quite a small scale to be attempting a project like this. I would also say there wouldn't be a MiniZ part left... except the body.
__________________
High Speed Hobbies
pedrocamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.10.03, 02:42 AM   #3
cowboysir
epic procrastinator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,170
i can visualize what you describe but I dont see a purpose other than an imaginative engineering exercise. I'd be curious how you manipulate motor control to develop a differential type function (like mcLarens MP12 4C throttle steer system?).

I'd seriously be keen on seeing a drawing at least...schematics always make for fun reading.
__________________
I wonder what rocket scientists say to their coworkers when one of them doesn't get it?

my custom body album (now that Photobucket sucks!)
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/album.php?albumid=192
cowboysir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.10.03, 07:23 AM   #4
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
The thing about wheel motor cars though is that they don't tend to turn well, you can't speed up a wheel motor electronically a whole lot more than max speed. I realize that BL motors can be run with different timing to modify speed, so perhaps that is what you'd have to do to achieve "proper" differential action with a wheel-motor car.

Currently there are some small brushless outrunners that can fit snugly in a Mini-Z wheel, and we (GSR) have toyed before with these kinds of motors in building a speed run car. For us, we only had to have two ESC's communicating with each other, and that's where we got stuck. If you want AWD you are going to have to deal with two more ESC's on top of that, and they each need to communicate with each other (L/R, F/B) for the car not to handle like crap.

This is a very tall order indeed, you get any headway with it it'll be quite a splash. Good luck.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.10.03, 09:40 AM   #5
Ridin24z
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
Well I'm planning to build the esc myself. Want to get all the control on one chip. I have a nice FPGA board with lots of pins and a USB port =]. It's got plenty of processing power and 1Mbit boot rom. That way the feedback from all the motors can go all into the same chip and process the signals out to the FETs from there. Simple enough where hardware is concerned. Gonna be a pain coding it though. I'm tempted to machine the motors from scratch. May need to sneak into uni to use the lathe :P. Can you link me the motors you speak of?

This is the fpga board I own: http://www.knjn.com/shop.html?pg=img&src=5101
Ridin24z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.10.03, 02:37 PM   #6
reaper
Registered User
 
reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 184
as colour0 said there are some very small out-runner bl motors hitting the market right now some around 2g

i think if your going to get this working you need to be a little more realistic , by this i mean scale up your build
I'd go a least 1/10 get that to work then think about miniaturization
reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010.10.05, 06:57 AM   #7
Ridin24z
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3
I think I should be able to get this working. I've ordered a nice little outrunner small enough to fit in the wheel.

I'm currently redesigning the chassis. The stock chassis wont allow an organised fit for everything. Gonna get it CNC milled out of 2mm carbon fibre (prob something cheaper to prototype with). It's gonna be a very simple design so it can house as much as possible. I'll post a 3D model hopefully later today.

In terms of control systems, PIC32MX460 looks promising. Found a nice breakout board with the chip and USB port on board. 30ish from Sparkfun.

Anyone know of any good MOSFETs to use with the BLMs? The Max current of the motor is 12A and is 8A Continuous. Bear in mind, I'll need 24 of them (6 per motor) :P. Rather not have to stack them if possible.
Ridin24z is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
awd, brushless, ma-010

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB:Mini Z AWD/ Electronics xoxide Mini-Z Marketplace 14 2008.04.27 09:03 AM
Kyosho Announces AWD Mini-Z! mini-z Mini-ZRacer.com Announcements 0 2005.08.25 01:24 PM
Brushless Z Motors schoon Parts and Hop-ups 12 2003.09.07 04:22 AM
Homemade brushless motors Fiero Man Mini-Z Science 9 2003.03.16 10:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts