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Old 2018.12.01, 05:02 PM   #31
Qball41
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When we did something similar in Texas, back in the day, each team had to have one person always marshalling. That would create 6 marshals in this instance.
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Old 2018.12.01, 05:30 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Qball41 View Post
When we did something similar in Texas, back in the day, each team had to have one person always marshalling. That would create 6 marshals in this instance.
That's a good rule. We don't have the room to do that but it's definitely something to enforce.
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Old 2018.12.01, 07:49 PM   #33
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For the Myrtle Beach enduros the driver had to leave the stand and follow the car to the pits. Once all work was completed the driver went back to the stand and one of the other team members placed the car in a designated "pit" space and the driver took over. The car must make it to the "pit" area under it's own power or the driver has to attend to the car so that it can. Marshals have no duty beyond placing the car right side up or out of the boards. They cannot re-install the body or slide a tire back on the rim(as an example) or any other operation that could be deemed as a repair. The more rigid the rules the more thought out the car preparation becomes. It adds a totally different layer of competition to the event.

It also helps to establish a minimum drive time for each driver. Four drivers means an hour each. Three drivers the, the weakest driver must drive for a full two. This would prevent say me driving for 15 minutes and EMU and Keeley(again an example) taking the rest. Stints do not have to be the full time allowed in one shot. They can be broken up to match the pit stop strategy but drivers must check in and out with a time keeper. Margins can be factored in to cover overlap where it comes into play.
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Old 2018.12.01, 10:58 PM   #34
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So, I wouldnt be able to bring a pit crew and do all the driving?

I think if there are 3 drivers, each driver must do a cumulative minimum of 1/4 of the driving time. 4 drivers, each driver must do a minimum of 1/6. This means 1.5hrs for 3 drivers, and 1 hour for 4 drivers in a 6 hour race.

In the event that a car is in the pits for an extended period of time, a 2 hour mandated time period would mean that pilot will have more than 1/3 of the wheel time.

Due to spacial constraints, it might be difficult to have the driver handle repairs and pit in/out without interfering with other teams. I do agree that the marshalls should not handle repairs. If a marshall needs to pull a car to hand off to a team for repair, perhaps a stop and hold "tow" penalty should be assessed before the car is handed over, or released from the pits.

Car prep should be approached for the long run, and appropriate measures should be taken that the car can run for the race. Proper planning can keep a car on track and racing with little time in the pits. Body choice, gearing, t-plate... should all be chosen wisely. The last enduro that I ran, I used the f360 GTC body, which was a dependable and durable body. I chose not to use a lexan rear wing for durability reasons.

Will this race run with full course yello/cautions, and stack the grid up and let the rear teams regain 1 lap for each caution period if there is a serious wreck? It is something to consider and discuss. To bring it closer to real endurance races, and possibly allow a smoother transition for marshall relief. Use a pace car to set the pace of the caution period?
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Old 2018.12.02, 08:15 AM   #35
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All of that makes it complicated but it should be. The specific amount of time that every driver runs is critical to preventing a marathon driver from running the table. If it is specified that each team must have a four driver line up then it becomes easier to police but you have to make all stints as equal as possible to give the weak links for each team the same stick time as the stars. Then it becomes a strategy game as to when to use them.

Some caution must be used though or you drive off the more experienced participants because you have taken away their trump card which is experience over the field.
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Old 2018.12.02, 10:21 AM   #36
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I donít feel we are the right venue for that level of detail or complication. I donít know that there is any real interest in that level of detail or complication. Iím not discounting it as itís clearly worked for you before but feels like an almost insurmountable hurdle to jump for what should be hours of fun. The physical layout as well makes all the more challenging and more suited to larger tracks and wide open spaces. Iím not sure the goal is to create such a realistic experience vs. a longer duration event that simply has teams within a reasonable structure. If this were MImiís again or NCRC sizes venu it would much more suited to that end.

I donít believe it needs to be more complicated as achieving that level of realism isnít the overarching goal in my mind. Perhaps Gary, Mike and others can contribute more to the conversation as they are the originators for the event. There has been a LOT of information provided in terms of what can be done and not so much what is wanted and we are jumping into some heady stuff now that honestly might just turn more away than draw them in. I feel like some measure of recentering is need to refocus.

Mike, is there posts where we can find the event structure discussed in detail that your describing? It interesting and detailed anough to be a good topic in and of itself
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Old 2018.12.02, 11:24 AM   #37
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I agree with Mike and Ray here about the drivers race time and how many rules we want to have to worry about. I will talk to a few people and set out the thoughts to be voted on early this week.
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Old 2018.12.02, 12:43 PM   #38
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mlee, is THIS the old event? I want to read more on this formatting

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Old 2018.12.02, 06:35 PM   #39
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mlee, is THIS the old event? I want to read more on this formatting
That was the second one I believe. Somewhere in the old MBMZR tracks and GTG's will be all the info on the first one. You will know you have found it if you find C.Tabush and Jacob Feinstein on the entry list.

As far as room at Remnant, all you would need to do is cut the back stretch into two wide instead of three. The whole track for that matter. The additional space gained can be used as a hot pit. Endurance racing isn't about outright speed it is about pace and overall distance covered. With proper planning you can cover the 4 hours on three battery changes. I know. That is how we won the overall. It takes a real efficient motor to do it but they are out there.
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Old 2018.12.02, 07:00 PM   #40
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I would expect that all entries would be using brushless motors for the efficiency, and it could easily run an hour plus with proper setup.

I believe this is the old event: http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31060
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Old 2018.12.02, 09:40 PM   #41
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That's the one. I guess my memory isn't as good as thought. Getting old ain't for sissies. We did win the second one overall. Lots of preparation tricks and secrets for endurance racing.
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Old 2018.12.02, 10:06 PM   #42
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I wish that I could have attended those races. I feel that I missed some truly amazing experiences. I am also very efficient behind the wheel on long runs. I had thought about using LM rubber, but the lack of traction of kyosho rubber on the track has made me reconsider the tire choice. I think that I would lose more time on pace with the kyosho rubber than I would make up with shorter pit stops.

I would put pace differential at about .5s to 1s for the difference running endurance pace (no brake usage), which is a lot to lose every lap.
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Old 2018.12.03, 08:15 AM   #43
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That track in particular looked like it was a lot of fun with the rise and falls, from the first link I posted.
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Old 2018.12.03, 04:19 PM   #44
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Eugene, the time you spend changing tires far exceeds the time loss on K rubber. I wouldn't run anything but LM rubber. The longer it runs the better it gets and no tire changes for the 4 hour run(except for rain tires).

Ray the multi level is a real experience. You can't see it in the shots but you can see the uphill. It went from there all the way to the other end of the room at that level and started a sweeping downhill at the other end. When you were back at grade level you turned into a set of esses that started you back up to a level below the top that ran about 1/2 way back the opposite direction from the top level and then dropped back down to grade(could get big air there which the LM bodies handled really well) then back through another set of esses that brought you back to the uphill grade again. The grade changes were a real howl in the rain stages. Too much throttle and it wouldn't climb, just spin. The sweeper at the end of the top straight could be taken almost flat out on rain tires if you lifted at just the right point and set up a huge lurid power slide around and down the hill. Myrtle Beach was famous for their multi level lay outs. As Gary about it. He made it down for at least one of the Carolina Cup events when MB had the track at the Mall.
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Old 2018.12.03, 04:39 PM   #45
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Eugene, the time you spend changing tires far exceeds the time loss on K rubber. I wouldn't run anything but LM rubber. The longer it runs the better it gets and no tire changes for the 4 hour run(except for rain tires)....
The RCP surface is new, and it doesnt like the Kyosho rubber one bit. I found myself close to .5s down in pace in stock driving aggressively. Luckily I made the A main, and drove my pants off to finish 4th. My fastest lap was close to .4s from the leaders, but I couldnt keep that pace consistent one bit. I wasnt as lucky in the HFAY class, and ran identical pace to stock, being already past the limit of the rubber.

In my calculations, 60 laps of running would equal a tire change if you can get it done in 30s (which if you train properly should be easily achieved). I dont know how the fall off is on the PN Soft rubber, but I would suspect that it would only need one if not two tire changes for the event, and the pace is considerably better, as well as the consistency.

The last enduro that I entered, I ran LM tires, which had me off pace by .3-.5s a lap on a much larger circuit. I dont remember what the lap times were, but I think they were 14s or so. This proved to be ok, as the car never got out of hand, and we made up ground late in the race when the competitors needed new rubber on all fours. In my stock class race a couple weeks ago, I was spinning tires off every corner, and pushing into every corner with the LM20/30 combo. Driving a car tight in and loose out of every corner for hours will prove to be difficult even to the most experienced drivers, which is why I have started leaning towards using the PN rubber. An easier car to drive is the most important factor in an endurance race.

You know that I love Kyosho rubber, it simply does not work on this newer surface. If many competitors use the Kyosho rubber, then it might start working midway through the event, but I suspect that there may be only one or two teams that will consider using it.
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