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Old 2007.03.28, 11:30 PM   #1
Hood
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HFAY rules clarification

Is it legal to remove the switch from the board on a HFAY car?

No Modificaions Whatsoever, makes it sound like no.. But, the rule then goes on to list all of the things that are not allowed..
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Old 2007.03.28, 11:43 PM   #2
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if you want to remove the switch. I'm ok with it....
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Old 2007.03.29, 07:10 AM   #3
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I'm okay with removing or replacing the switch.

-hobbycar
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Old 2007.03.29, 09:06 AM   #4
Hood
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Thanks guys..

I already removed one, and had a local racer question the legality.. I just wanted to be sure before we run on Saturday.

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Old 2007.03.29, 01:20 PM   #5
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What would be the questioned benefit of removing the switch?

-Byebye
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Old 2007.03.29, 03:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byebye
What would be the questioned benefit of removing the switch?

-Byebye
I believe it reduces resistance from the batteries, therefore improving speed slightly.
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Old 2007.03.29, 04:21 PM   #7
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So that would be modifying the board to increase performance? Honestly I would be against it because it opens up a whole nother catagory of "okay and not okay modifications".

I have a cat 5 antenna does that qualify as a performance upgrade by modifying the board? Or is it just an upgrade to reduce glitching and increase reciever performance? Should it be outlawed?

I also think that anything other than an upgrade from 3004 to 3010 FETs should be done by someone competant in soldering and electronics. You don't want people to think that somehting like this is an allowed "modification" only to ruin his/her board. The same reason you either send you board off to a shop or have your club trusted FET upgrader do the work.

Somthing else to take in to consideration is the reason for the modification. I upgrade my antennas so the car doesnt' glitch and I've noticed a difference when running in "glitchy" areas of the track. Upgrading FETs from 3004 to 3010 is because of the upgrade boards on the market today. Changing a POT, replacing a wire or some other similar fix shouldn't be illegal but I question the reason for removing the switch. It's clearly not because of a faulty switch or bad connection. It's purely a performance upgrade and I think the modification rule should be clearer.

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Old 2007.03.29, 04:41 PM   #8
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some of the most knowledgeable members have debunked the idea that removing the switch makes any kind of improvement. this totally contradicts some other members who claim it does make a difference. i personally don't think it could possibly result in any measureable performance increase. you may see a numerical differnece in precise electrical measurements however i personally don't beleive that would translate into any measureable performance increase.

i know this topic has been beaten to death on xmods forums.

replacing antenna wire has already been approved. i asked that question back in s1.
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Old 2007.03.29, 05:51 PM   #9
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I agree with arch on this one. I don't really see it as a performance upgrade.
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Old 2007.03.29, 07:27 PM   #10
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Normally I wouldn't care about such things but I just noticed that the thread was started by Hood. Since he and I are running neck and neck I think if there any remotely possible chance that it provides an iota of performance increase to his car...I don't think it should be allowed.

Big Phat J/K on that one.

I don't think it increases performance. It might be a slight weight advantage but that's about it. There's probably more benefit to changing your motor wires which I think has been okayed in the past.
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Old 2007.03.29, 08:06 PM   #11
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I read that it probably doesn't make any difference, but we are trying to save some weight since we are now dragging around the
AMB transponders.

Maybe the rules should be clearer..

It took us months before we found out the AWD motors are better than the kit motors, and about the drilling a comm hole, etc..

I guess motor wires and antennea are also modding the board if you want to be technical.

Spoon: What did you run this month? 90?? Don't worry about me too much, I am lucky to be this high up in the rankings. I will blow another race soon..

Brian: Since you are the boss, I will assume I am good to go unless I hear different. Thanks.

Last edited by Hood; 2007.03.29 at 08:12 PM. Reason: adding comment
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Old 2007.03.29, 08:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood
Spoon: What did you run this month? 90?? Don't worry about me too much, I am lucky to be this high up in the rankings. I will blow another race soon..
Oh, Hood, you know I can't reveal those details before the end of the month.
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Old 2007.03.29, 09:08 PM   #13
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I stole that from PN's rulebook... "no mods whatsoever". I knew this would come up eventually.

Yes, it does ramble (better safe than sorry), the other stuff mostly deals with the 3010 upgrade issue. This is here is a seperate issue. I have heard it both ways on this one. It does make sense about decreasing resistance... kind of the same deal with soldering the motor wires directly to the board.
(anyone recall what we decided on that one?... it's been a while )

It is a mod, that is a direct function change of the ESC... I don't think I would sweat it that much though. I think dragging around an AMB would obviously negate any gain you would see from this, I'm also sure that even if you weren't running AMBit, whatever gain you could get from it is next to nothing.

But... rules are rules. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be allowed, I'm saying that an issue like this should probably go to a vote between the judges and considered one of those floating amendments to the rules. (if it's cool with the majority) I'm very glad you at least spoke up about it, instead of just doing it and keeping quiet about it.

If we need to put it into Season 4's manual... no biggie. But it should go to some kind of poll or general consensus.
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Old 2007.03.29, 09:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imxlr8ed
I stole that from PN's rulebook... "no mods whatsoever". I knew this would come up eventually.

Yes, it does ramble (better safe than sorry), the other stuff mostly deals with the 3010 upgrade issue. This is here is a seperate issue. I have heard it both ways on this one. It does make sense about decreasing resistance... kind of the same deal with soldering the motor wires directly to the board.
(anyone recall what we decided on that one?... it's been a while )
Drac asked about this one specifically because he stripped the piece under the PCB that the motor wires screw down in to. We let him solder the motor wires so he wouldn't be forced to buy a part. I think that was in the spirit of keeping this low cost and accessible to everyone.
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Old 2007.03.29, 10:27 PM   #15
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On the Mini-Z standard PCB's, the switch is not a factor in performance. On Iwaver boards where the switch is in series with the batteries, it makes a difference in performance... But the Mini-Z switch just completes a circuit that tells the PCB to turn on. My multimeter is out of batteries, so I cannot test the voltage that is going through the switch, but I assume that it would be fairly low.

I dont HFAY (would love to if my local track ran the series), but I do think that the removal of the switch should be outlawed. As a marshall, you need to be able to turn a car off if there is a problem with it, if you have to remove the body and pull a battery to turn it off, that takes time that you could possibly be marshalling other peoples cars. I have had to marshall cars without the switch that had lost an Antenna, couldnt turn it off, so had to take out the battery to turn it off... while I was doing that the lead car had flipped close to me as well, and because I had to deal with the car without the switch, I could not right his car fast enough and he lost the lead... the chances are slim for that to happen, but I have decided that if someone has a car without a switch installed, and something happens to it, I will just leave it upside down next to the track and continue my marshalling.

If there was a faulty switch, I would think that it would be permissable to use the car without the switch for that race, but the next race event it should have a new switch installed.
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