2011.06.13, 02:24 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuji
we have done some testing with delrin and molded plastic arms but it didn't amount to any thing.... understand that the AA arm front end for the MR03 uses many of the same parts from the MR02. i have never changed my upper and lower arms however i do change my knuckles from time to time ... but not for the reason u state i have changed them due to the wear from the tie rod
my front ends stay butter smooth withe minimal slop and work great! 02 or 03but i maintain my front ends on a regular basis as with the rest of my car!
on the toe out issue... the toe bats that come with the kit is 0 to + toe
if you would like toe out u will need to obtain the +2 +1.5 +1 standard wide MR03 toe bars
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Yeah, I have already ordered the +2. If I am deciphering the pdf correctly this will result in 1.5 degrees of toe out, right? I was thinking of something a bit more subtle but I will give it a try.
from the pdf:
"If a stock MR03 tie rod is used, a +3.5° toe out will be equivalent to 0°
on the A-Arm suspension"
Thanks,
Brian
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2011.06.13, 05:44 PM
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#32
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PN RacingTEAM Driver
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glider
Yeah, I have already ordered the +2. If I am deciphering the pdf correctly this will result in 1.5 degrees of toe out, right? I was thinking of something a bit more subtle but I will give it a try.
from the pdf:
"If a stock MR03 tie rod is used, a +3.5° toe out will be equivalent to 0°
on the A-Arm suspension"
Thanks,
Brian
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for my mod MR03 i use the AA Arm "0" bar and i get approx 0.5-1 deg toe out....\ / this setting works good for me as it makes my car stable!
@ the 2010 RCX event i ran MR03 prototype AA Arm with the +2 bar with a bit of toe out but it was good enough to take the win!
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2011.06.13, 08:03 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuji
for my mod MR03 i use the AA Arm "0" bar and i get approx 0.5-1 deg toe out....\ / this setting works good for me as it makes my car stable!
@ the 2010 RCX event i ran MR03 prototype AA Arm with the +2 bar with a bit of toe out but it was good enough to take the win!
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I am currently running the AA 0 bar and like it as well, which is why I want to mess with a bit more toe out as well. You know, I never know how to measure the toe angle. There is a fair bit of slop in the toe bar, so do you measure it in the middle of the slop or one end or another of the slop? It seems like the outer wheel is getting pushed by the toe bar and the inner wheel is getting pulled by the toe bar in turns so that each wheel actually experiences a different level of toe in a turn. But if I take the average it does look like the AA 0 bar actually gives some toe out :-)
Last edited by glider; 2011.06.13 at 08:27 PM.
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2011.06.13, 11:01 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 60
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Well after giving my hack idea some more thought I think it is a no-go as it simply transfers the friction problem to the interface at the e-clip. Oh well, I will probably have to bite the bullet and go back to the anodized parts. Still I would like to see an upper arm option that locks into place a rotating teflon ball to give this system the best possible smoothness. It would appear to not be economically feasible to mass produce a really clean polished metal to metal interface on such a product.
And yes I am picky!!
Last edited by mleemor60; 2011.06.14 at 05:35 AM.
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2011.06.16, 06:43 PM
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#35
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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so...
building the kit Ive come across a snag. It appears that i need 4 e-clips, 2 for the bottom pins and 2 for the center pivot pin (for the knuckle) and yet my package only has 2 e-clips...
Am i missing something or am i just stupid? (only tell me Im stupid if you have documented proof)
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2011.06.16, 06:54 PM
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#36
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PN RacingTEAM Driver
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir
so...
building the kit Ive come across a snag. It appears that i need 4 e-clips, 2 for the bottom pins and 2 for the center pivot pin (for the knuckle) and yet my package only has 2 e-clips...
Am i missing something or am i just stupid? (only tell me Im stupid if you have documented proof)
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no clips r needed for the lower arm pivot pins.. they r held in place by the carbon plate!
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2011.06.16, 07:28 PM
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#37
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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You forgot to call me stupid...I can't believe I didn't think of that!?!! Thanks for that...
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2011.06.16, 08:00 PM
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#38
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MINI-Z BODY NUT
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: pa.
Posts: 5,028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir
You forgot to call me stupid...I can't believe I didn't think of that!?!! Thanks for that...
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You should really like it. It runs great and smooooth!
__________________
MINI-Z BODY NUT
DG DESIGNS - PN RACING - MANTISWORX
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2011.06.16, 08:27 PM
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#39
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DJ Eddie!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Scary North East
Posts: 1,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfisminiz
You should really like it. It runs great and smooooth!
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I second that!
__________________
MRX Mclaren MP-12CGT3 PN 43T LIPO: X2
MR-03 Mclaren MP-12CGT3 AT70T
PN 2.5 Mclaren MP-12CGT3 PN50T
MR-03 S2K Narrow AT60T Nihm
MR-03 BRZ Narrow PN70T Nihm
MR-03 Enzo Ferrari GT Concept Xspeed SP2012
MR-03VE 2005 NSXGT AT 12000KV w/Lipo
MR-02 Nissan R390 GT Lemans 39T PN
AMZ Benz TC 8500KV
X Power IDT Ultra 5600KV Audi
X Power IMT Ultra 6800KV M3
MB-010 FT86 Comic Racer 39T PN
MF-015 Mclaren MP4-25 50T w/Lipo PN
MR-01 Mugen NSX-GT 02 X Speed Retired
dNaNo FX-101MM T2 XANAVI NISMO GT-R
***************************************
MAJ'S HOBBY SHOP " A Place To Escape from Reality"! TD
214 State St. Suite 209
Hackensack, NJ 07601. 201-820-1347
LIVE Mini-Z RACING EVERY Fri at 7 PM.
Outdoor Saturday On Road Racing 1/8GTVE,1/10TC&USGT
DG DESIGNS
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2011.06.16, 08:52 PM
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#40
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PN RacingTEAM Driver
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir
You forgot to call me stupid...I can't believe I didn't think of that!?!! Thanks for that...
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no worries man!... it is a valid question.... it does have what looks like c clip groove!lol
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2011.06.16, 09:43 PM
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#41
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MINI-Z BODY NUT
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: pa.
Posts: 5,028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machgo5go
I second that!
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See you at the PN race.
__________________
MINI-Z BODY NUT
DG DESIGNS - PN RACING - MANTISWORX
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2011.06.16, 10:00 PM
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#42
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DJ Eddie!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Scary North East
Posts: 1,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfisminiz
See you at the PN race.
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For Sure Larry!
__________________
MRX Mclaren MP-12CGT3 PN 43T LIPO: X2
MR-03 Mclaren MP-12CGT3 AT70T
PN 2.5 Mclaren MP-12CGT3 PN50T
MR-03 S2K Narrow AT60T Nihm
MR-03 BRZ Narrow PN70T Nihm
MR-03 Enzo Ferrari GT Concept Xspeed SP2012
MR-03VE 2005 NSXGT AT 12000KV w/Lipo
MR-02 Nissan R390 GT Lemans 39T PN
AMZ Benz TC 8500KV
X Power IDT Ultra 5600KV Audi
X Power IMT Ultra 6800KV M3
MB-010 FT86 Comic Racer 39T PN
MF-015 Mclaren MP4-25 50T w/Lipo PN
MR-01 Mugen NSX-GT 02 X Speed Retired
dNaNo FX-101MM T2 XANAVI NISMO GT-R
***************************************
MAJ'S HOBBY SHOP " A Place To Escape from Reality"! TD
214 State St. Suite 209
Hackensack, NJ 07601. 201-820-1347
LIVE Mini-Z RACING EVERY Fri at 7 PM.
Outdoor Saturday On Road Racing 1/8GTVE,1/10TC&USGT
DG DESIGNS
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2011.06.17, 12:13 AM
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#43
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
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Hm, so last week when I ran at Kenon one last time Grant showed me how to properly get rid of slop on the double A-arm front end... I may have to give it another shot as I clearly haven't done this front end proper justice in my last review.
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2011.06.17, 09:23 AM
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#44
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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I'd like some views of that, Brian...I finished the build last night and I have to report not being too satisfied with the end result.
Not only do I have one knuckle with a bit more play than the other on its "kingpin" but the actual arms have way more back and forth play than my previous MR02 A-arms I purchased from other people(already assembled).
I've viewed some of the shim locations on those A-arms from other purchases so I think I can improve it but in my opinion if I was to use shims to de-slop-ify (good word huh?) they should have been provided.
It has smoothish travel but has a sticky/squeaky arm at the top of the travel...my guess is at the tie-rod/knuckle interface I'm getting a bit of rub. Polishing or just grease to remedy?
Not complaining as susch...just trying to post to get answers for future members who need help getting solid smooth action from their A-arm getup.
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2011.06.17, 10:08 AM
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#45
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
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So in general, the way that I've seen slop dealt with on this front end is to file a bit, then use a thicker shim to fill up the space. This strategy works well on the Delrin pivot balls (file the flange down, then add a 0.5mm aluminum shim, works GREAT to remove all vertical slop without binding up the ball) as well as the upper arm caster adjustment (file hinge mount down, then replace the 2x 0.2mm steel shims with a 0.5mm aluminum shim for full caster and no slop). Shimming the lower arm is a little more difficult though, as it actuates the spring and that itself is on a sliding kingpin.
The trouble is that after you run it for a while, the double A-arm will develop slop due to most joints being metal-on-metal. I didn't like that fact and I didn't know how to fix it, so Grant pulled out a pair of pliers and showed me how, lol... just squeeze the arms in towards the hinge mount and there you go, no more slop! I don't think this qualifies as an elegant solution by any means, as you'll have to squeeze the arms every so often, but it does work. That's why I'm heavily considering running the double A-arm again as I definitely don't dispute that it generates a little more grip than the reverse-kingpin setup I have now (which, again, I've stuck with because it's virtually zero-maintenance and performs quite admirably).
Last edited by color01; 2011.06.17 at 10:19 AM.
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