2010.09.27, 09:58 PM
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#1
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PN Racing Team Driver
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 1,700
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RR reverse kingpin
anyone else check out the reflex blog. they have a new reverse kingpin system that looks pretty interesting.
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PN Racing
R1Wurks
LET's Go Racing
MBMZR
DG Designs
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2010.09.28, 05:01 AM
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
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"Interesting" in the sense that it's "right". This is the optimal configuration that 12th-scalers have had for years, just weird that Kyosho never gave it to us. Unfortunately there really is no space to lower your car with these springs, which means that the suspension geometry might not be able to be set to what you were using before. For example, I prefer slightly taller tires with lower ride height, so I would have 1mm of space for the spring coils, lol...
Good job again Reflex!
Last edited by color01; 2010.09.28 at 05:04 AM.
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2010.09.28, 08:40 AM
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#3
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White Knuckle Racing
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
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wont putting shims on top of the knuckle adjust preload on the spring and ride height?
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2010.09.28, 09:08 AM
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#4
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White Knuckle Racing
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorWKR
wont putting shims on top of the knuckle adjust preload on the spring and ride height?
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it will also add camber which may not be a bad thing also...
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2010.09.28, 10:36 AM
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#5
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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I like this option
Shims on top of the knuckle wont lower the ride height. It will limit the suspension travel, and will increase camber and spring preload. Shims under the knuckle effect all four. Adjusting camber should be done with alternate methods if you only want to adjust the camber without effecting preload/travel.
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
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2010.09.28, 11:02 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by color01
"Interesting" in the sense that it's "right". This is the optimal configuration that 12th-scalers have had for years, just weird that Kyosho never gave it to us. Unfortunately there really is no space to lower your car with these springs, which means that the suspension geometry might not be able to be set to what you were using before. For example, I prefer slightly taller tires with lower ride height, so I would have 1mm of space for the spring coils, lol...
Good job again Reflex!
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Always so skeptical.
The front can be lowered quite a bit, just can be used with FULL size Kyosho front tires as it will be simply too tall. You can still use taller tires with a smaller wheel and achieve lower ride heights.
Also, a smaller diameter front tire is also superior under most track conditions (the only time you really want to run a tall tire is if the track has NO grip watsoever, even then I would go with a smaller tire, softer compound). It allows you to drop your front end ride height without dropping your front roll center. Low front roll centers on the MR-03 are the Devil. They cause the car to traction roll and lose too much corner speed.
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2010.09.28, 11:15 AM
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#7
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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I almost always lower my front ride height with the front wheel/tire choice. There are many options on the market for 19mm wheels, and if you want to go lower than that, you can use the Mantis 18.2mm Group C wheels. If thats not enough, then Kyosho LM, Nascar or Classic wheels would be the smallest usable wheel. Having a smaller wheel also increases the responsiveness of the car, and one of the reasons that I prefer using them to lower the front end rather than shimming up the knuckle.
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
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2010.09.28, 02:12 PM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush
Always so skeptical.
The front can be lowered quite a bit, just can be used with FULL size Kyosho front tires as it will be simply too tall. You can still use taller tires with a smaller wheel and achieve lower ride heights.
Also, a smaller diameter front tire is also superior under most track conditions (the only time you really want to run a tall tire is if the track has NO grip watsoever, even then I would go with a smaller tire, softer compound). It allows you to drop your front end ride height without dropping your front roll center. Low front roll centers on the MR-03 are the Devil. They cause the car to traction roll and lose too much corner speed.
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Huh? Sorry if I came across that way Cristian, but my intention was to state that this is THE best way to implement reverse-kingpin suspension, and I'm glad you guys found the springs to do so! I'm just worried that people who like to "slam" their cars aren't going to have suspension uptravel room (me being one of them). I'm already running 19mm wheels but I still lower my car by additional 1.2mm and raise the roll center accordingly.
Should I email you to add a set of the springs to my order? I have the PN reverse kingpins already.
Last edited by color01; 2010.09.28 at 02:21 PM.
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2010.09.28, 02:25 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
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The springs will not be available by themselves for now. The kingpin is different than the PN one. It does not have a flange. This allows you to play with King-pin positioning a bit and get extra ground clearance. The pivot balls are also recessed to allow for the spring to sit inside.
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2010.09.28, 02:36 PM
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#10
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White Knuckle Racing
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
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the picture that is posted on the blog. What knuckles are those?
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2010.09.28, 02:39 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
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Those are our own knuckles. I am still playing around a bit for clearance but they are almost done.
And BTW, no worries Brian, just giving you a hard time
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2010.09.28, 02:44 PM
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#12
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White Knuckle Racing
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,708
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is your knuckle considered a standard hieght or a low down? and will a low down version give you more options on ride height?
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2010.09.28, 03:53 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 987
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CT - How does it work? On the track I mean? Is it the best suspension you've used, can it be adjusted enough to make it one of if not the most susperior MR03 front suspensions available? Thanks for the pics too, love checking out pics
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2010.09.28, 03:57 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
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The axles on our knuckles are raised a bit to provide lower ride height. Low down vs standard is relative. For example, with stock knuckles, I typically run a 0.5mm shim underneath the knuckle. With lowering knuckles, I do not run anything when I use 19mm front wheels.
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2010.09.28, 04:28 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
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Felix, I just see it as a different suspension.
They all work similarly and all have their advantages and disadvantages. Personally I like it, it makes the front super precise, because it reduces slop to almost non-existent levels.
The Pros and Cons are below:
Pros:
-Economical: The full set will cost probably about $13.00-14.00 comes with balls, king pin, e-clips (including extras) and a spring set.
-Light Weight: The King pin is small, light and so are the pillow balls and springs.
-Reduces slop over traditional and Reflex Xtra long King pin set-up.
-Really smooth. The benefits of a reverse kingpin is having less sliding parts. This usually means more front traction.
-Low maintenance: These parts make the wear of the front end much lower, even the knuckles. This keeps COST DOWN.
-VERSATILE: It can be run reverse style or with the spring at the top. It also works with Kyosho, Atomic or PN Lower arms.
-LOW PROFILE
Cons:
-Not as adjustable
-E Clips are sometimes tough for some people
-Limited ride height possibilities in Reverse Set Up. Basically, you are better off with worn-in or trued tires.
-Car is a little twitchier due to increased front suspension efficiency. You have to use thicker grease to tame the front end down vs the top spring set-up.
-Clearance of the bottom can get a little low if not spaced properly.
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