2004.04.30, 08:00 PM
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#16
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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well I spent the time searching for I-Waver, not once was any of my posts in these threads, out of line...
bird, the only time I posted about the clones, is when the information was requested... or to reply to some one elses comments about them... I guess some of you are reading a little too much into what I type, with out actualy reading it...
I posted what they are, and I intend others to make their own opinion based on the facts I present. I am not trying to make them GO-Away...
When I want something to just go away I wont be posting about it on a forum, there are more direct methods that would be more effective... possibly involving some C4, and a realy long stick...
ALL of my hatred toward clones lies strictly on the HEIPOA, and those that were selling it on ebay... "worth 99$!" "transmitter alone sells for 50$!" this was all crap...
Last edited by Draconious; 2004.04.30 at 08:03 PM.
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2004.04.30, 08:30 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6
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I apologize if I misinterpreted anything you were saying. I had been following that thread for a long time, since before I even recieved my iWaver, and it just seemed to me that you were just stirring the pot whenever you posted, I guess I was reading too much into your words... And then when Charlie Brown started his thread, it seemed like a whole bunch of the same again, and again I sensed that no one here wants to hear about these cars by the reaction he got...
I'm sorry if my opinions offended you. I won't be bothering you guys anymore.
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2004.05.01, 12:22 AM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconious
umm a forum is for jumping in... if thats all that he is complaining about is me posting period.. then umm.. what the... its not like his posts are not jumping in
Hes claiming every post was me calling the I waver Junk... Ive not once directly said it was junk... closest thign would be me calling it a clone, and in another post calling a similar clone junk.... but this was not posted in every post as he says I did...
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If you say forums are for jumping in, then, Why lock a thread that is totally about what was being talked about an iWaver? If it was you that posted like
I did, it would have been overlooked. But since I'm new and your the Mini-Z fanatic, I get cut off and edited!!! If my post was soooo bad, cut it there, not after it continues on and gets even worse. Why edit a mans post? I didn't swear, or put up porn!! I'm sure if I look around, I can find much worse commentary!! I got my post edited because it wasn't to the liking of someone. The worst thing I said was narrow-minded and the word pinhead. Those are used by school children, I was tryin' to keep it a "G" rated post and it was. If you can't handle those words, I'm sorry and apoligize right now to all the school kids I let down by not using them in the right context!!! Then I couldn't reply to my own statement!!
@ DRAC>>>Your using what is called an implied judgement, you may not directly call it junk, but it is what you imply. You set it up like its an offical statement, but have no proof of such claims!! Copyright and other legal mumbo jumbo that you use is totally irrelavent to the quaility of the vehicle, which is what everyone was talking about until you stepped in with this legal crap.
If such theories like all clones suck because they come after the original, which is what you imply about the iWaver, then this forum sucks (I don't think it does!! ) because there was one before it and so on and so on!!! The design and idea of the Mini-Z is almost as old as RC, wouldn't that make it a clone of other RC's? And don't forget that clones suck!!
I don't know or for that matter care at all, but is this site and the name Mini-Z cleared for use? If your so caught up in legal stuff, look into that.
I love a good debate!!!
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2004.05.01, 12:45 AM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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First Im not the one that edited your post
My posts were not attacking any one, yours were in a way... they deserved to be edited... there was a request for the topic to be put back on track, no one listened the thread was closed...
And, if I state that it has a weaker reciever, and the car is not a real Mini-Z, and what ever other things, most of wich are agreed upon by those who have one... and YOU come to the conclusion that I am implying that it is junk, then YOU are the one that is actualy saying that its junk, by adding up the facts set before you... you came to your own conclusion.
Off Topic, and hopefuly does not apply here:
I know that on other forums, not nessessarily mini-z related, some members intentionaly start "debates" in practice for "debate club/classes", if any of this is an iota related to this, we realy do not need it here... true honest feelings only here please. I only say this cuz I have seen others post in these other forums "our teacher recomended to start a debate in online chat rooms" etc, type of posts... frankly im not in the mood, I only reply when some one else posts something that makes me do so... if the issues I brought up were not already a factor on the forum, I would have never even bothered to post about the stupid clone issue...
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2004.05.01, 07:29 AM
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#20
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconious
First Im not the one that edited your post
My posts were not attacking any one, yours were in a way... they deserved to be edited... there was a request for the topic to be put back on track, no one listened the thread was closed...
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I edited your post because after R EPEATED requests that the thread discontinue arguing this subject it a thread asking about iwaver reviewst etc, not sermons/stances from anyone on legitimcay. my prupose was to keep this as friendly a place as possible. YOU (sg219) had directly insulted a fellow member (friend and moderator) which is against forum rules to begin with.
i created this thread for the sole purpose of getting into this issue here, in a civilized manner. EVERYONE that fails to heed the forum rules will find themselves receiving an appropriate measuer of discipline, as i promised earlier.
the LAST thing i want to do is have to go around cracking down on people, believe me. it's been very easy to be a moderator as a large percentage of the members conducted themselves in a mature manner and occasionaly bent the rules. PLEASE don't make me out to be the bad guy here becasue people can't argue a point without getting personal
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2004.05.02, 08:53 AM
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#21
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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my 2 cents
i greatly appreciate drac presenting the material on his site to help prevent unsuspeting newbies from getting ripped of, i even go along with clones are illegal, iligitiemate product.
where my opinion differ's however is i don't mind buying a $40 clone for parts or bash around. neither kyosho or the clone manuf. care about the u.s. market a great deal (my opinion) so i don't believe either care too much about sales figues here. i mean, come on, the number of potential consumers in their home market is probably significantly higher than actual customers here (u.s.) if it were different, you would see gp acvertising mini-z's as aggressively as rs advertises xmods.
so, while i agree they are bad in general and absolutely not up to par with quality...for $40 you can't beat a parts car with full electronics and tx for other rc projects. not to mention i would buy 2-4 of the iwaver's just to let family run on my track as i don't want them coming near my $2-400 mini-z's it only takes one cowboy with a heavy throttle finger to smash a car up and just walk away saying, sorry or opps to ruin your day trust me i know. i would get xmods for this purpose but they run soooo poorly on my track no one is even interested in touching it.
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2004.05.02, 11:17 AM
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#22
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2-Z or not 2-Z...
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Open Road
Posts: 2,678
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...and the moral of the story...
For the right price, we should throw ethics and quality out the window and pass the buck on legalities or global responsibilities due to selfishness.
Last edited by Ken Mifune; 2004.05.02 at 11:49 AM.
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2004.05.02, 12:24 PM
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#23
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Mifune
...and the moral of the story...
For the right price, we should throw ethics and quality out the window and pass the buck on legalities or global responsibilities due to selfishness.
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isn't that the capitalist american way
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2004.05.02, 11:49 PM
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#24
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Master of Thrash
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconious
ALL of my hatred toward clones lies strictly on the HEIPOA, and those that were selling it on ebay... "worth 99$!" "transmitter alone sells for 50$!" this was all crap...
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I always wondered about those, at what % of sellers on the bay have actualy touched the item they posted? I think that most just get the pictures and a memo to write a "catchy" ad for the item in question. Some "fly by nite" company that stocks nickel and dime store items, go through sellers like cannon fodder, reminds me of telemarketers that moves from place to place. So is the backlash more at the producers or the marketers?
The Iwavers may be useful. But as far as illegal, I need to see something more solid before I can cast stones.
Last edited by HammerZ; 2004.05.03 at 12:06 AM.
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2004.05.03, 03:29 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 76
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Ive had some Clones
Ive had some Clones...with mixed results
Bit CHar-G clones X2
Transformer clones X countless numbers
Yes clones are cheap, but they serve a good purpose...Little Brothers. lol
Nagging little brother want a turn on the Ol' Mini-z retail 150$+? Get him a Hia Po for retail 20$ and get him outta your hair...if hes old enuf to tell the diffrence then hes old enuf for a weekend job to buy his own mini-z lol.
Bitchar-g clones are cheap and in a item that costs so little to begin with its easy to get a "Close" match... but YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! You buy a used 1973 toyoda and expect 2004 corvette preformance then you need some help.
Most Clones are illegal. Clones are cheaply made, They exsist because there is a market for cheap knockoffs. Dont feel bad if you bought one, just treat yourself alittle better, Walmart has a nice line of Super cheap RC cars in the toy section...20$ Hia Po would fit in nicely with the toys. thats why Mini-Zs are in Hobby and Specialty RC shops and not on the shelf at Toys R Us.
Is not a toy... give your little brother the toys get yourself the Full on Racer RC.
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2004.05.06, 11:55 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: GVRD BC, Canada
Posts: 522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconious
...I intend others to make their own opinion based on the facts I present. I am not trying to make them GO-Away...
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So this is where this discussion ended up! I search Iwaver on Google and this pops up!
The problem with your facts Drac is you haven't provided any facts at all. You have yet to prove any patents, copy rights or licensing agreements have been violated. Show us proof we can verify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconious
... ALL of my hatred toward clones lies strictly on the HEIPOA, and those that were selling it on ebay... "worth 99$!" "transmitter alone sells for 50$!" this was all crap...
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You use the word clone to lump all cars that are not Kyosho under the Heipoa banner even though the Iwaver is a much better product that has not been misrepresented in the same way.
Drac, you do jump in and slam the clones every chance you get, you bring up the same issues every time and you have tied the Iwaver to the fraudulent activities of those selling the Heipoa at some point in your comments virtually every time. I don't think the Iwaver is any more associated with Heipoa than Kyosho is so why must you continue to link them?
I really have to laugh at some of your logic Drac. You claim to know the Mini Z MR-01 is made in China but you don't seem to be able to accept that the Iwaver could be made by the same subcontractor Kyosho uses with their blessing.
As I said before for all you know Kyosho may have simply branded the Chinese manufacturer's car as their own with a clause that gave them an exclusive on the car untill they developed their market position.
I'm not saying that is what happened but it is one of many possibilities you don't seem to ever consider. I've worked in the supply chain in a few different industries that extensively use Asian suppliers. I don't think you have any idea how many so called North American brand names and products are actually developed in China and brought to North America as an original domestic product by brand name companies located here.
I communicated daily with a trading agent in Taiwan for three years who continuously developed brand name product lines for the European and North American markets and then sold the name and line to companies located in those markets. I was very knowledgeable within the industry and had personal exposure to many of his products at the wholesale level earlier in my career in that industry. I had no idea at the time so many of the big US brand names in the magazines were actually developed completely in Taiwan and China.
Drac, before you spew any more unsubstanciated claims about the Iwaver why don't you actually get one? At least then your diatribes would be based on personal experience with the product you constantly berate. I think you're afraid that the Iwaver may be a better car than you want it to be.
If you ask me it is the Mini Z's bloated profit margin the Iwaver threatens and not the Mini Z itself. I think the prices on the Mini z could come down a long way and still provide Kyosho with a good profit.
__________________
I never said it would be easy, only that it would work. W. Edwards Deming
SSMT143 crawlers, the OL killers at 1/3 the price.
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2004.05.07, 12:28 AM
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#27
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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Why do you need proof that they probly dont have a ford liscense and what not? can you prove that they do have it? The company does not sell to the US, so they dont need it to sell in japan and hong kong... so there is a 99% chance they do not have such liscense, and the proof you want for them not having the ferari liscense is the lack of a hot wheels logo its REQUIRED... (this as been said above, so scroll up to read this part more).
So im wrong because I have no proof, yet you go on speculating things as well with no proof whatever... I also never said it was NOT a possibility... I know kyosho will buy products from other factories, for example RCP tracks...
Once you send me 50$ ill go ahead and buy one... until then I will continue buying my mini-z's for only a few bucks more , just bought a new MR01 (pt cruiser) readyset for under $70 (including shipping), dont bother asking were it was the only one.
And as I said before I do not need to have one in my hand to know what I have said about them... name one thing that I said that I would have to have one in my hand to know it... this is not the bush election, please dont try to alter what was said by others, intentionaly or not...
frankly talking about the copies and clones and knockoffs is getting old... especialy since most of it is not realy relavent. I could maybe add, that maybe an alien race realy invented the mini-z? and then a china factory found one, and then kyosho stole it from this factory? Does it realy matter? I dont care if the pope made the thing, they are not 100% mini-z... read that as not the same, as in im not saying its junk, as in its got different molds, electronics, and different transmitter and different reciever, if you wish to think of this as me calling it junk then thats your opinion.
If the I Waver was about 25$ or less AFTER SHIPPING IT TO USA, then it would be very much worth the cost... the hei poa? is not worth more than $2.50 and thats being generous...
Last edited by Draconious; 2004.05.07 at 12:32 AM.
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2004.05.07, 01:09 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: GVRD BC, Canada
Posts: 522
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Like shooting fish in a barrel Draconious.
__________________
I never said it would be easy, only that it would work. W. Edwards Deming
SSMT143 crawlers, the OL killers at 1/3 the price.
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2004.05.07, 11:28 AM
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#29
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learning the hard way
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Surrey B.C
Posts: 607
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I picked up 2 Iwavers, i needed to see the difference for myself.
As i only need one, i HAD one Iwaver for sale in the misc forum. (shipping was cheaper for 2 cars) but nevermind about that.
I have the Subaru Iwaver and the car handles like an MR01, it comes with 2 motor mount options, changeable wheelbase, and the cool clear remote. Apart from teh remote,it looks pretty much ,like a MR01. The body does have the Dodge logo on it, and it's detailed exactly like an Autoscale body.
The Iwaver highspeed motor is exactly like the Xspeed, The lights function great and are quite brite. All my MR01 kyosho parts fit and work on the Iwaver.
And the kicker, it's half the cost of a MR01. Even with shipping it was cheaper. Can't beat that. Kinda makes me wonder if Kyosho is setting a higher price because people are willing to pay it.
Since it seems the clone nay sayers are out in full force, why dont we all take the time to read a review of the Iwaver from some one who has an open mind, and $50 to spare. Gadzooks they even sell them on thier store right next to the kyosho product. Weird
http://www.microrccenter.com/forum/i...howtopic=24390
Last edited by machine; 2004.05.07 at 04:36 PM.
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2004.05.07, 05:06 PM
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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I see were the confusion is comming from, ppl are exagerating, and "putting words in my mouth" that I did not say on other forums... bird especialy.
Easy, you want to enlighten me as to what you are refering by that?
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