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Old 2019.06.28, 06:48 PM   #16
mugler
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Our Verison Of Box Stock Rules (in Reality Near Box Stock)

As promised just sharing the more comprehensive list of Box Stock guidelines we have developed over the years & go with in our area when we do run it. Things always evolve as necessary and as you can see we're still trying to figure out a few ongoing items most notably front tires & what to allow for 86mm WB.

Chassis:
Kyosho RWD Only
- but for now we allow MR ASF chassis too
Radio:
KT-531P Only ( come with RTR RWD)
- but for now we allow any Radio with ASF equipped cars only

Motor:
- MZ9P (comes with RWD)
- md009p (AWD version of white cap Mabuchi motor - more torque, as an option)

Gearing:
- Open gearing based on Kyosho stock gear diff and pinions included with the RTR RWD.

Wheel Base:
- 86*,90,94,98,102.

Body:
- No Lexan Bodies, Only Plastic Kyosho (ASC or white body with all pieces) ,TRP, Jomurema, GL bodies with original rear wing ( no aftermarket wings).
- No Lexan windows allowed.
- If original wing is broken or lost body should be run without one.
- Missing side mirrors, canards and other pieces are OK.
- Thinning out wheel wells for clearance an eliminating long front spoilers allowed.
- Cutting out body pieces & thinning out the body to save weight or improve aerodynamics not allowed.
- Drilling holes or even eliminating the “rear” windshield only to clear the Kyosho friction shock is allowed as well as thinning out the roof for the same purpose.
- At discretion of race director body can be brought back up to stock weight using golf lead tape or something similar if its deemed to be too light.

Mounting the body:
- Aluminum front Body mount base and carbon fiber adapter plates like the ones from PN allowed ( to avoid stripping body mount holes on the chassis which is very easy to do)
- Some of the newer ASC bodies included with the RTR RWDs come with side clips installed too low or high …detaching and re-gluing as necessary is allowed.NOTE, shaving off bottom of the body to then be able to mount it lower is not allowed.

Tires:
- Open Brand Rubber material only. (*)
- No saucing or cleaning of any kind except with iso alcohol. ( we never clean unless if tire comes into contact with oil or grease by accident)
- No CA gluing tires to rims, only tire tape to be used for this purpose.
- CA anywhere on tire sidewalls is allowed.
(*) When we get a chance we’ll be testing the short K- front tires and if they’re good enough we’ll make those the spec front tires as they do not require truing and this plays into keeping box stock more light hearted.

Wheels:
- Plastic spoke wheels only of any brand and any offset allowed.

General Misc items & Mods:
- Any brand T-Bar allowed
- Aluminum T-Plate mount allowed ( for durability to avoid stripping screw holes on chassis)
- Any Brand Front Springs allowed
- Reversing original king pins allowed.
- new Replacing steel upper arm balls with aftermarket derlin balls allowed (example PN Part#: MR3039 - frees up the balls movement (compared to stock steel) on lower front suspension arms when king pin is reversed)
- Shimming T-Bar at motor mount and or T-bar holder allowed using shims of any brand or material.
- Any grease or fluids on any part of the chassis, drive train or motor allowed ( doesn’t apply to tires , see tire rules)
- Using longer screws to hold the front body mount to limit arm travel allowed.
- only kyosho plastic motor mounts allowed for all WB-es.
- Any brand & any material DDS which can be adapted to any of the Kyosho Plastic motor mounts allowed. Any brand and material bits and pieces to allow adaptation of DDS to kyosho plastic mounts are allowed.
- Only Kyosho friction top shock allowed (not mandatory).
- Soldering motor wires to the board allowed.
- Replacing board & battery terminal wires to thicker gauge not a good idea and left to race directors discretion case by case.
- Any aftermarket wheel nuts allowed
- Removing capacitor from motor allowed ( our racers understand this may cause overheating of the motor, Fets etc)
- Only plastic shims of the kind included with the RWD can be used to adjust front ride height ( as many as necessary)
- Any kind of reaming, polishing of the front king pins and knuckles for smoothness is allowed.
- Ceramic bearings NOT allowed, there are ways to check this and race directors encouraged to do so.
- Degreasing and applying light oil to bearings allowed, running dry bearings also allowed.
- Cutting original battery clips to any desired shape allowed. (changes flex characteristics of the chassis)
- After market servo gears not allowed except for 4th servo gear.
- Changing Servo motor with one other than same as original not allowed.



Grey Areas & items for which final rulings were not made yet so still allowed:
- if narrow front bodies can use wide front suspension holder instead and -1 offset for clearance when possible.
- * For 86 mm WB since there’s a huge inherent performance handicap & no known DDS system available we’ve been allowing all mods for this wheel base only even though this is not in line with the spirit of box stock….until we get to run more box stock again and come up with better solution for 86mm.
- Allowing slight reduction of height on the front end just behind the wheel wells as a measure of clearance even though this delves into the grey area of reducing body height which is not allowed if its done on the entire body.
- Again we’ll be looking into making kyosho short front tires spec for front after testing, rear tires will remain open rubber of any brand.
- In case of failure if it’s necessary to require the use of original potentiometer only that comes with MZ414 - not enough info as of yet if they're the same or there's an advantage using a different one.


If a hop-up or modification is not mentioned then by default it is not allowed, for example even though adding FET’s or drilling chassis not mentioned they are still not allowed.

Last edited by mugler; 2019.07.14 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 2020.03.07, 12:09 AM   #17
mtse0
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What is the thought on AWD in box stock?

We had an issue tonight at our local track that has a box stock class. The rules stated for the class are , only upgrade allowed is tires. Pretty straight forward.

I have not ran box stock in a few weeks because my son has started racing with us again and I gave him my box stock to run. This week I thought I would buy a new car at the track, swap the tires and run it. So as I was signing up for the class I picked out an awd ma-020 toyota celica to buy and run in the class. No mention was made that awd was not allowed. The first heat I had a tire rub during warmup and had to bow out. I fixed the problem then during checkin for the second heat I was informed that awd was not allowed in the box stock class. Needless to say I was a little upset, not only because I did not get to race, but I just wasted $200 on a car that I can now only race in their open class.


Does an awd drive car give an advantage over the rwd cars that would justify this decision? I have not owned any awd cars at this scale, but I had the impression that the awd cars actually have a slight disadvantage over their rwd counterparts.

Do most clubs/ tracks exclude the awd platform in the box stock class?
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Old 2020.03.07, 07:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtse0 View Post
What is the thought on AWD in box stock?

We had an issue tonight at our local track that has a box stock class. The rules stated for the class are , only upgrade allowed is tires. Pretty straight forward.

I have not ran box stock in a few weeks because my son has started racing with us again and I gave him my box stock to run. This week I thought I would buy a new car at the track, swap the tires and run it. So as I was signing up for the class I picked out an awd ma-020 toyota celica to buy and run in the class. No mention was made that awd was not allowed. The first heat I had a tire rub during warmup and had to bow out. I fixed the problem then during checkin for the second heat I was informed that awd was not allowed in the box stock class. Needless to say I was a little upset, not only because I did not get to race, but I just wasted $200 on a car that I can now only race in their open class.


Does an awd drive car give an advantage over the rwd cars that would justify this decision? I have not owned any awd cars at this scale, but I had the impression that the awd cars actually have a slight disadvantage over their rwd counterparts.

Do most clubs/ tracks exclude the awd platform in the box stock class?
At DC we have no restrictions on chassis type for essentially your stock class. There has been no advantage to running MA-020 AWD. The MA-020 AWD chassis tend to have more steering when using the same tire combination as a rwd but that does not make a faster chassis. The inverse effect of the awd steering grip is increased traction roll. This is resolved with running a hard tire up front e.g. 40 front tire vs. 30 front tire.

The MA-020 has many flaws in comparison to the MR series of chassis. The center of gravity is higher, the diff joints are not durable, the diff is not durable, the front of the chassis tends to crack more often than usual and lastly there is a lot of drive train loss and so it's just slower enough that it's not competative.

I've seen a lot of clubs exclude the MA-020 AWD wihtout really giving it a chance.

One last point, when you upgrade that chassis from brushed to brushless it only exacerbates those issues I mentioned and ultimately requires you to purchase all alloy upgrades simply for durabilty.

Kris
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Old 2020.03.07, 08:10 AM   #19
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What Box Stock means to people varies. Or rather, how it is implemented varies. Kyosho manufacturer’s several stock chassis configurations. Some clubs decide that only one is to be used while others like the DC club allow any stock chassis to be used. Be it an MR-01 or an MA-030. What is used is driver choice based on preferences and or limitations to access. I am not a fan of creating an class that limits everyone to a single choice unless you are intentionally limiting to a spec classification class, which is what a Box Stock FHSS RWD MR-03 class is. I understand the philosophy behind it and no qualms with it but the program should be forthwith in disclosing this to all to avoid issues that you have encountered. Some split AWD and LM into separate classes which I understand but really isn’t warranted when driver choice dictates if they want to run something with an inherent disadvantage based on preference. On our two wide l tracks, it doesn’t really make a difference so the track fit is is the equalizer vs the chassis type. Even LM can be a poor choice in a small twisty track. AWD tend to be slower in stock form. We do allow AWD to use aluminum motor shims because they tend to run so hot. Yet more weight for AWD which is heavy already.

The quick answer is, it varies by program.

For those that are chassis specific, what is the policy for when Kyosho release a new chassis or frequency system as they love to do? I can’t believe that all drivers would be forced to the new whatever it is? Great for the shop owner, crap for the driver. I prefer to take the long game approach myself.

Last edited by arch2b; 2020.03.07 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 2020.03.07, 08:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b View Post
What Box Stock means to people varies. Or rather, how it is implemented varies. Kyosho manufacturerís several stock chassis configurations. Some clubs decide that only one is to be used while others like the DC club allow any stock chassis to be used. Be it an MR-01 or an MA-030. What is used is driver choice based on preferences and or limitations to access. I am not a fan of creating an class that limits everyone to a single choice unless you are intentionally limiting to a spec classification class, which is what a Box Stock FHSS RWD MR-03 class is. I understand the philosophy behind it and no qualms with it but the program should be forthwith in disclosing this to all to avoid issues that you have encountered. Some split AWD and LM into separate classes which I understand but really isnít warranted when driver choice dictates if they want to run something with an inherent disadvantage based on preference. On our two wide l tracks, it doesnít really make a difference so the track fit is is the equalizer vs the chassis type. Even LM can be a poor choice in a small twisty track. AWD tend to be slower in stock form. We do allow AWD to use aluminum motor shims because they tend to run so hot. Yet more weight for AWD which is heavy already.

The quick answer is, it varies by program.

For those that are chassis specific, what is the policy for when Kyosho release a new chassis or frequency system as they love to do? I canít believe that all drivers would be forced to the new whatever it is? Great for the shop owner, crap for the driver. I prefer to take the long game approach myself.
Richmond did this exact thing. They initially had brushless chassis for sale and possibly awd and created rules for their first race based around brushed rwd chassis only. Anyone that purchased brushless could not run. Within the year of racing they moved to brushless for their top class and brushed for their two lower classes. They also adopted Kyosho spec motors only(5600kv, brushed x-speed, stock motor respectivley). This has been very successful for them as a new club and for the owner because of product support and availability. They do not have tight rules for modifications except for MR-03 chassis only and AAA only.
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Old 2020.03.07, 09:08 AM   #21
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They were creative in selection of the specific to classes, in-line with what Kyosho does for their cup rules.

What happens when the next frequency system comes out? Most of their classes are based on a specific system.
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Old 2020.03.07, 02:03 PM   #22
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They were creative in selection of the specific to classes, in-line with what Kyosho does for their cup rules.

What happens when the next frequency system comes out? Most of their classes are based on a specific system.
They aren't really based on a specific system other than to say Kyosho ESC which has long been the standard. I think they will stay that route until a stronger ESC comes out and is designed for the ease of use of LiPo. If it changes the form factor of the chassis then it will put a damper on things.

I think they will move with the tide of wide availability. I think Kyosho has nearly every base covered other than wide availability and ease of use of LiPo. That will be the next leap.
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Old 2020.03.07, 03:21 PM   #23
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Last time i read the rules, it states a specific radio for box stock class which means your tied to a specific system. Other classes are now open.
Quote:
2WD Box Stock Class
ESC / Transmitter

Syncro KT-531P (stock FHSS transmitter) only.
FHSS boards found in box stock Kyosho Mini-Z MR-03 only.
Quote:
2WD Stock Class
ESC / Transmitter

Open transmitters.
Open to ASF, FHS, or FHSS board use only.
Quote:
2WD GT 98mm and 2WD Le Mans 102mm
no mention at all of ESC/Transmitter for the last two and assume same as 2WD Stock

Last edited by arch2b; 2020.03.07 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 2020.03.07, 05:56 PM   #24
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The radio one is tied to is an interesting component. We run a 90mm Porsche GT3 class based on rules/specs from the Ice Melter race, which are similar to stock class with a few more body/wheel/tire restrictions. I have an old Sport chassis, so I run that in its stock form, but I have to use the KT19, which I don't love. I'd like to swap out the Sport board for a clone ASF board and use my EX6R. Apparently that moves it outside the rules.
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Old 2020.03.07, 10:25 PM   #25
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Thanks for the thoughts on the ma-020.

Last edited by mtse0; 2020.03.08 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 2020.03.07, 11:54 PM   #26
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Last time i read the rules, it states a specific radio for box stock class which means your tied to a specific system. Other classes are now open.






no mention at all of ESC/Transmitter for the last two and assume same as 2WD Stock
The first class is essentially your novice class. The next stock class is your intermediate class which allows you to make some modifications that can effect handling. The GT98 and 102 are your advanced classes somewhat equivelant to 70 prostock and mod respectively running evo chassis and the handful of radio options.

What I enjoy about this group and the rules is there is very little deviation by the way of performance within each class so the racing is always close.
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