2001.12.03, 02:38 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 138
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My superior "H" bar design :)
Ok, I thought of this back in June, but never got around to posting it.
It is an H bar that allows you to do all of your rear end suspension adjustments exclusivly by the rear shock and rear roll shock.
The normal H bars interfer too much in setting the car up the way i want, and so this design coupled with the rear shock and roll shock (oil filled would be ideal) would provide a much more tunable rear end.
Plus, the stock H bars brake to easy. I have broke atleast 4 stock bars, and atleast 6 carbon bars.
Let me know what you think.
Note: this design isn't perfect, but it is there to give you the idea of what I mean
Robert
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2001.12.03, 03:22 PM
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#2
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,448
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Dude, that is awesome!! But you forgot one thing...you need to make it so that the rear end won't contribute a "4 wheel steering" effect. It should move up & down, and be able to twist, but not pivot side to side, other than that, very nice idea!!!
Russ
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2001.12.03, 03:48 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 138
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Ah... I didn't even think of that
But I know what I could do
but it doesn't much matter, seeing how I woulnd't be able to make one
Shrubba
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2001.12.03, 06:33 PM
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#4
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,448
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well, tell Cuz some of us might be able to... hehe...
Russ
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2001.12.03, 09:05 PM
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#5
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,448
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I'd probably go with something like this, where the 2 notches would be up/down pivots, and the loop thingy would be some kind of bearing rotational pivot or something...just popped into my mind & I had to get it out before I lost it
Russ
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2001.12.03, 09:38 PM
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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martini ? or was it some one else? that once posted on martini's forum about making a rolling rear... to roll side to side... I then said to use a ball joint, was then pointed out that it would be able to yaw... well after that I drew up someting on paper similar to the 2nd photo there... but I was still relying on a flex, like the current plate designs instead of a hinge... but was thinking of a bearing type roll, bearing would not realy be needed, its not high rpm... and would probly work better/cheaper with a bushing, friction would help act like absorber too. Could probly use those grey technic Lego connectors for a prototype test... What I was going to do with my goofy roll shock I made.
I was recently contemplating a way to make it out of my alum. plate... didnt realy think any one was that interested in free rolling rearends .
Just came up with a revision to my ideas.... I guess I will make my good ol cad pics of this too... We can let Mini-Z build this one in the shop . This one is about 2 pieces aded to the existing susp. plates... but will cause the plate to be used on one setting smaller then the car body normaly uses... so the smallest setting wich I guess no one uses... will not be useable with this, but will be used for medium bodies...
Last edited by Draconious; 2001.12.03 at 09:44 PM.
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2001.12.03, 10:37 PM
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#7
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Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,497
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Very cool ideas. Maybe the original (accidental 4WS) system could be linked to the front servo somehow for 4WS, that would be awesome!
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2001.12.04, 07:42 AM
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#8
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Newton's Second Law
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 145
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Just picked up a pencil at work and drew this out, Its not perfect yeah, and it's proportions are maybe a little screwed up, but it does (or would do) what it needs to do.
Its basically the same idea as Russ'. An H plate that pitches up and down and tilts left and right (not yaw, tilt, like an airplane banks its wings). I used two roller bearings I guess... bushings work fine too I spose, just so long as they can move the same way the bearings do.
Here's my drawing.
(the top three are supposed to be the same as the bottom) The Isometric is the easiest to see. I tried to label the way everything moves, cause its hard to see from 2D drawings.
__________________
Ken
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2001.12.04, 02:31 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 138
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After seeing you guys ideas, here is the latest one i drew up
I hope you get the idea of how it all works.
I think this should be quite do-able.
Let me know what you think.
Shrubba
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2001.12.04, 03:12 PM
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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I tried to fit it via cad, and my using the stock plate wont work so I redid it with a hinge last night its similar to the last 2 sketches up there, but those will have a conflict when forced in wrong direction.. I will have to 3dify my 2d version but here is the 2d before I 3D it .
http://members.home.net/draconious/M...HingePlate.jpg
I will add the 3D image later, was too lazy to do it last night.
And some of those wont fit in all the length settings... mine will still only fit on the long and medium setting as well...
So far they all have design flaws (especialy mine)...
Some of them dont have enough support point around the roll hinge, or maybe mine is just too much... I used a lot to keep it from flexing and catching on the two plates while trying to roll... if it were miss aligned etc. Oh well hard to explain.
we'll all come up with one thats perfect eventualy
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2001.12.04, 03:29 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 138
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Draconious, that has got to be the best set up so far
So what is the problem with your design exactly? Looks pretty good to me. I don't think too many people use the short seting anyway... I never do.
So, who is up for building a bunch of these little babies!?
Aluminium or plastic?
I am suprized that some company (like GPM) hasn't already done this.
I would love to get my hands on a couple of them
Shrubba
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2001.12.04, 03:42 PM
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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Ive tried to send various ideas to Kyosho and even to GPM, theo nly email I can get a reply from is Kyoshos, Hobbico repair line... who just give me the project leaders snail mail adress, wich I dont feel like sending my whole idea to then never get credit for it, I would at least like some freebies of the idea I gave them!
GPM, never replied to emails...
All these emails spoke alot about my SERVO SAVER concept (my top secret project for Mini-Z hehe), and they still dont give a rats ahem.
So I guess its upto us to make the parts and sell them, once they start selling like crazy... other companies will copy us, then we can sue them for copy right and patent infringement hehehe.
And as for my design flaws, ive already fixed them while converting it to 3D, when flexing the head of the bolt/screw would drag on ground, not nuff ground clearance, i fixed it by moving it 2 mm higher.... wich should theoreticly handle better too... wich leads to another requirement of this, were is the most optimal place to put the hinge point? high or low? it has to have some effect on the handling.. would effec thow much it flexes etc.. I am going higher, cuz lower away from center of tire, would result in a goofy flex, would slide up under fender etc but stick out on other side... just would act funny if put in wrong spot so we need to find good spot .
Last edited by Draconious; 2001.12.04 at 03:46 PM.
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2001.12.04, 03:48 PM
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#13
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Newton's Second Law
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 145
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Russ' mine, Shrubba's new one, and Drac's H-bar are basically identical in function. Its just a matter of packaging from here on out... the important thing is to get the right axes to give and have the vertical axis support a moment (so you dont have that 4WS effect)
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2001.12.04, 03:54 PM
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#14
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Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,497
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Do we think that the current shock can handle this setup though? It seems like you'd need something more heavy duty or at least a stiffer spring? My other question is will it buck when you slam it into reverse?
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2001.12.04, 05:00 PM
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Goodrich MI
Posts: 6,164
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All to be discovered in testing --- Compiling a 3D rending right now of my current design, I managed to get it to allow MED and LONG settings to fit right, BARELY! I also have plenty ground clearance now ...
Heres the updated 3D one:
http://members.home.net/draconious/M...ngePlate3D.jpg
Last edited by Draconious; 2001.12.04 at 05:17 PM.
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