2008.02.25, 09:32 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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fet stack on 2.4ghz
quick question guys...
not that i would be doing a fet upgrade anytime soon, i was wondering...
where would one add the fets? on top or at the bottom? i've read that these boards already have 4 3010 fets on them (two on top and two on the bottom)
also wondering what powers the servo/pot? didn't a pair of 3004 fets supply power to them in the older boards? don't see them on the 2.4ghz board...
thanks and appreciate any replies...
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2008.02.26, 05:05 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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Would suggest doing both to avoid a weak link, as far as the steering fets goes.. I'm not sure how the AD bands had it.
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2008.02.26, 05:52 AM
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stafford, Va
Posts: 6,064
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4x2 3010 would be pretty good. I remember some guys running T2's and PN S03's on the adband cars so I don't think it would be necessary. The 3010x2 is very smooth.
I remember RUF saying it's digital and didn't need those FET's or somthing like that. Maybe that had to do with the POT?
Kris
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2008.02.27, 02:46 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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Quote:
I remember some guys running T2's and PN S03's on the adband cars so I don't think it would be necessary.
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hmm... do you mean you can run the t2 and s03 on the stock 4 3010 fet 2.4ghz board with no problems? is the ad band board and 2.4ghz board similar?
Quote:
4x2 3010 would be pretty good.
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so i take that it would mean, adding two more 3010 on top and two more on the bottom 2.4ghz board?
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2008.02.27, 06:00 AM
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stafford, Va
Posts: 6,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herman
hmm... do you mean you can run the t2 and s03 on the stock 4 3010 fet 2.4ghz board with no problems? is the ad band board and 2.4ghz board similar?
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Yes, Jo at CRC in Germany had an awd and an MR-02 setup with a T2 on ADBAND
And Roger was running an S03 on adband. The ASF board has the same FET setup as the adband. That's why so many were curious about the FET's. This means you can run some pretty hot motors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herman
so i take that it would mean, adding two more 3010 on top and two more on the bottom 2.4ghz board?
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I realized what I typed only when you quoted it. I meant 8 total with 4x2 on each side. I supposed though we've seen the upper limits with normal AM boards(4x2 4562) and I don't think 8 FET's is necessary. At today's cost of 2.4ghz chassis I don't want to be the first to find out if more than 4 FET's cause the steering to go crazy
Kris
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2008.02.27, 11:02 AM
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#6
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that Orange car is fast..
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Whittier(LA county), California USA
Posts: 975
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I managed to smoke a stock AD board running a 33 wind motor (the anima). I can't say for sure what happened, but I'm not about to run low wind motors on my new 2.4 boards with stock 3010 fets.
A single stack of 4562's (4 total, 2 on each side) is enough and that's what I now run on my AD boards for open class pan car.
I don't see why it would be an issue with the 2.4 board.
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2008.02.27, 11:38 AM
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#7
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DCGTG FET Guy
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 3,444
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It sounds like we need a new standard for talking about FET stacks on these double FET boards.
Maybe the stock setup is 1x1x1x1 and a stacked setup is 2x2x2x2
Just a thought.
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2008.02.27, 12:20 PM
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#8
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PN RacingTEAM Driver
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon
It sounds like we need a new standard for talking about FET stacks on these double FET boards.
Maybe the stock setup is 1x1x1x1 and a stacked setup is 2x2x2x2
Just a thought.
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i ran a 4x4(8 fets 4 on each side)on my ad band boards for the regional and the world cup in my opinion with batteries such as duracell 1000s on a grippie track this is the way to go.....in a track that suffers from grip such as the world cup track or insideline ....it provides too much punch...even with the ad setting on high
and now with the more powerful batteries like orion, team scream..... way too much punch
so now my ad board has a 2x2(4 fets 2 on each side) of the an0113 pn racing fet
run time is longer wit 2x2 and it is controllable coming out of corners
i ran my ad board std as is when the atomic chilli motor came out and i smoked the fets.....so i will be upgrading my 2.4 board to an0113 fets @ 2x2
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2008.02.27, 12:37 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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I tried running 2x2 FETs on my mod 2wd for about a month but I could not get the rear end to stay planted so I end up running a single stack 8962 fets since this is super smooth and it fits my liking.
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2008.02.27, 01:17 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,683
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I'm with TJay on this one. The less FETs you can get away with running, the better. Spec wise, a single stack of 4562's should withstand the highest of abuse, even with a Chili, T2, etc on an MR-02. On an AWD, this might be a different case as you actually need extra power and punch.
My choice is leaving the AD Band stock. At the atomic cup earlier this year, I blew the top stack on my back-up car and replaced it with 4562's only at the top. The car was WAAAY too fast. My main car had a regular 3010 board and was way more manageable.
I think the main thing to consider is what class are you running and what motor. Due to the nature of our competitions (In the case of 2wd modified-with handout motors in modified that are less than ideal, and too fast), I tend to limit my FETs and batteries to slow the car down. I don't care if you are Masami Hirosaka, these cars simply have too much power to control with 4x2 stacks and fast batteries. Even if the grip is high, slow your car down and you will go faster.
AWDs can be deceiving. You can get the power down, but if you overpower it, the car starts spinning the wheels without you really noticing. Just because all 4 wheels pull, it does not mean that they won't loose grip on the track. My choice here is a 2x2 stack of 4562's, sometimes, just a single 4562 on top of the stock 3010.
Pan car I have learned a lot about lately. These cars are much easier to drive than the rest of the Mini-Z's due to the increased downforce provided by the bodies. It does not mean that they can't be overpowered though. Here I have found luck with a 2x2 of 4562's. The car will stick even when running fast batteries, but you will run faster laps if you de-tune on the batteries a little bit (this means the power to weight is better for acceleration when this factor is decreased).
Stock; is a free for all. Run as many FETs and as fast of a battery you want. Especially with the new 70 turn motor rule. With this wind, it won't make much of a difference. I'd recommend a 2x2-2x3 of 4562's. Anything above this is not only redundant but counter-productive. The decreased resistance is probably added by the extra solder. You loose throttle resolution, and it does not fit right unless you do crazy conversions to the cars
If we had free reign on competition rules, then you could run more efficient FETs, faster batteries, etc. Unfortunately this is not the case for everyone. Ideally, the fastest MR-02 around a track would probably be one with a 2x2 stack of 4562's with a Speedy AD (slightly faster than the Speedy 07) and really fast batteries. Unfortunately, we are stuck using the Chili and Anima 2, and therefore, you have to tune accordingly.
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2008.02.27, 03:33 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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Exactly! On my AWD's I am running 2x2 4562 fets since the car needs more power/punch and it can handle it no problem.
My mod 02 (single stack 8962) on the atomic race, I had to loosen up the diff just so I can get around without spinning out. It was really bad though cause I loosen it a little too much that I could not pull myself out of the corners and we were not allowed to test the car on the track during breaks... Chilli motors on an 02 is just way too much especially on a technical track. I had to run my tenergy batts on that day to slow me down a bit and reconfigure my throttle finger !
The new stock rules is gonna be awesome! I am working on my 2x2 fet PCB transfered on my old 3010's stock car. With the new stock class motor, we'll need all the power we can get. So, definitely need to pack more HOT batts not just for my awd but for the stock 2wd as well.
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2008.02.27, 07:02 PM
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#12
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4play
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Reflex Racing, everywhere
Posts: 2,602
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Stacking FETs can only decrease on-resistance which means more power transmission, BUT the downside is increasing input capacitance which makes for laggy, unpredictable power delivery. I also like to run as few FETs as possible given the motor application - stock, mod, whatever. It's easier and usually cheaper to find power in other areas of the driveline.
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2008.02.27, 07:34 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush
My choice is leaving the AD Band stock. At the atomic cup earlier this year, I blew the top stack on my back-up car and replaced it with 4562's only at the top. The car was WAAAY too fast. My main car had a regular 3010 board and was way more manageable.
I think the main thing to consider is what class are you running and what motor. Due to the nature of our competitions (In the case of 2wd modified-with handout motors in modified that are less than ideal, and too fast), I tend to limit my FETs and batteries to slow the car down. I don't care if you are Masami Hirosaka, these cars simply have too much power to control with 4x2 stacks and fast batteries. Even if the grip is high, slow your car down and you will go faster.
Pan car I have learned a lot about lately. These cars are much easier to drive than the rest of the Mini-Z's due to the increased downforce provided by the bodies. It does not mean that they can't be overpowered though. Here I have found luck with a 2x2 of 4562's. The car will stick even when running fast batteries, but you will run faster laps if you de-tune on the batteries a little bit (this means the power to weight is better for acceleration when this factor is decreased).
Stock; is a free for all. Run as many FETs and as fast of a battery you want. Especially with the new 70 turn motor rule. With this wind, it won't make much of a difference. I'd recommend a 2x2-2x3 of 4562's. Anything above this is not only redundant but counter-productive. The decreased resistance is probably added by the extra solder. You loose throttle resolution, and it does not fit right unless you do crazy conversions to the cars
If we had free reign on competition rules, then you could run more efficient FETs, faster batteries, etc. Unfortunately this is not the case for everyone. Ideally, the fastest MR-02 around a track would probably be one with a 2x2 stack of 4562's with a Speedy AD (slightly faster than the Speedy 07) and really fast batteries. Unfortunately, we are stuck using the Chili and Anima 2, and therefore, you have to tune accordingly.
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Thank you for the info on your FET recommendations, Cristian.
I would like to leave my AD-MR02 and my new ASF-MR02 alone and keep them both 2x2 3010s (4-FET total), but you mentioned the problem with this - When you have to run a specific hand-out motor. The ANIMA II and the CHILI are too hot from what I've read to run on an MR-02 chassis with the stock AD-Band or 2.4 ASF PCB. What are your thoughts on adding an additional single-layer of 3010's to the AD-PCB and the ASF-PCB, making them a 2x3 3010 stack(6-FET total)? Would you consider this an option for Mod-Class MR-02 (2WD) Racing, or would you rather go with a 2x2 4562(4-FET total)stack instead? I am speaking about 2WD only, not the MA-010.
I am very happy with the feel and performance of the 2x2 3010 FETs, it's just that I want to make sure my car can handle the Mod-Class motor, which has been the ANIMA/ANIMA II.
Thanks again for your help.
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2008.02.28, 12:42 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: makati, philippines
Posts: 8,702
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another cool read... enjoying it... thanks and appreciate all your responses...
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2008.02.28, 02:29 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 987
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@ruf - I was browsing the "Ask Kyosho" thread titled *Sneek Peek* MR02LM 2.4gHz system and saw that you posted this:
"Fet-to-fet, most people prefer the driveability of the 3010 to the 4562. The 3010 double stack that comes with the 2.4GHz board would be my configuration of choice."
I too am a fan of the 3010 double stack that comes on the AD and ASF PCBs.
I would very much appreciate your input on what to do when it comes to MR02 (2WD-only) Modified-Class racing where the required motor could be the Chili or the Anima II - What would be your FET-configuration of choice?
rharris and Yasuji both said they had bad results with stock AD-PCB Fet setup with these two motors.
Thank you for the info
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