Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts

Go Back   Mini-ZRacer.com Forums > General Discussion > Motor Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 2012.02.10, 07:37 PM   #1
Traveler
of both Time and Space
 
Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 1,892
Are caps still necessary with 2.4 GHz Cars?

Rebuilding some older mod motors and wondering if I can remove the caps. All my cars are 2.4 MR-03s. Thanks
Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.10, 08:09 PM   #2
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
Send a message via AIM to EMU
I dont think they are necessary for 2.4ghz.
__________________
EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.11, 04:44 AM   #3
NoBrainer
Registered User
 
NoBrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Norway
Posts: 579
I think you are right EMU, but caps are there to reduce noice from the motor to other electronics.
So I would keep them. Nothings more irritating than interferance that you just can't understand why.
Just my point of view.
__________________
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
NoBrainer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.11, 07:13 AM   #4
nicov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Paris, FR
Posts: 29
If you talk about the caps on the motor connection, they are also here to reduce the sparkles on the collector, avoiding to burn the collector.
nicov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.11, 03:44 PM   #5
Bodom
Registered User
 
Bodom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sofia,Bulgaria
Posts: 279
EMU is not right here Caps are needed.
__________________
Bodom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.14, 07:46 AM   #6
Traveler
of both Time and Space
 
Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 1,892
Thanks for the input guys! I was hoping for a unanimous position, but guess I'll have to resolve for myself by trying with and without. If I learn anything fascinating, I'll post it here
Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.14, 07:52 AM   #7
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodom View Post
EMU is not right here Caps are needed.
Curious why you say this. I've been running all sorts of motors in my Mod 03 with and without caps and haven't ever noticed a difference. PN motors don't even come with caps anymore AFAIK, so if they are necessary then we would have to rush out and buy caps overnight.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.14, 08:14 AM   #8
Rune
Mini-Z Norway
 
Rune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 457
On ASF boards we have been running without caps for the last two years.
Never experienced any problems.
__________________
PN Racing Team Driver

Mini-Z Norway
Rune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.14, 11:31 AM   #9
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
Send a message via AIM to EMU
The caps on the motors reduce noise for the 27mhz AM band. On 2.4ghz, I have not seen any difference with or without them. On AM, if a cap was loose, you would feel it in glitches.
__________________
EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.14, 04:10 PM   #10
oXYnary
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU View Post
The caps on the motors reduce noise for the 27mhz AM band. On 2.4ghz, I have not seen any difference with or without them. On AM, if a cap was loose, you would feel it in glitches.
More than just AM. We used them for decades with FM as well. Nicov has the best answer. They also reduce the spikes in the motor use to reduce motor wear on the commutator.

You may not be noticing any difference because the ASF hides most of it. BUT. It still exists. The 2.4 band is still a form of EM, while the motor without caps puts out EM energy. As well as your electronics.

Really? Is it that hard to put on the caps? If nothing else you get longer brush/commutator life.
oXYnary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.14, 06:43 PM   #11
Traveler
of both Time and Space
 
Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 1,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
Really? Is it that hard to put on the caps? If nothing else you get longer brush/commutator life.
Actually, I've found it quite difficult to solder the cap to a new can (which I will have to do with a few motors). I've roughed up the can with a file, used flux and still had difficulty making a nice joint. Plus, with the 94-98mm mounts, where you solder to the can and how much solder you get on that joint can interfere with the diff shaft, so no, I don't think its easy. But now we are getting off topic, so lets get back to the subject.
Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.14, 07:10 PM   #12
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by oXYnary View Post
More than just AM. We used them for decades with FM as well. Nicov has the best answer. They also reduce the spikes in the motor use to reduce motor wear on the commutator.

You may not be noticing any difference because the ASF hides most of it. BUT. It still exists. The 2.4 band is still a form of EM, while the motor without caps puts out EM energy. As well as your electronics.

Really? Is it that hard to put on the caps? If nothing else you get longer brush/commutator life.
One part you're neglecting I think is the fact that the newer ASF boards have several capacitors inside the board itself that serve the same function as the caps on the motor. On the MR03 at the very least we know there's a cap right between the motor terminals. If you care enough about this, we can take a look at that cap's value and you'll most likely see that it filters out noise in the 2.4GHz band, just as the add-on caps used to do for our AM 27MHz.

In my experience the caps' effect on brush/comm life is nearly negligible compared to the starting quality of the brushes and comms themselves. PN and Kyosho comms last eons compared to Tamiya Mini-4WD comms, and the brushes... well, every batch I've bought lasted a very different amount of time thanks to different driving conditions. It would be nice to have a scientific test for brush life with and without motor caps, but I replace brushes less than once a year so I'll admit I don't really care.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.15, 01:16 AM   #13
NoBrainer
Registered User
 
NoBrainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Norway
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
On the MR03 at the very least we know there's a cap right between the motor terminals. If you care enough about this, we can take a look at that cap's value and you'll most likely see that it filters out noise in the 2.4GHz band, just as the add-on caps used to do for our AM 27MHz.
Does this apply to the MR-02? with 2.4GHz that is.
__________________
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
NoBrainer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.15, 07:28 AM   #14
pomme de terre
Registered User
 
pomme de terre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: toronto
Posts: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBrainer View Post
Does this apply to the MR-02? with 2.4GHz that is.
Yes. It's just oriented laterally between the motor terminals rather than longitudinally like the MR03 board.
pomme de terre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012.02.15, 07:29 AM   #15
Bodom
Registered User
 
Bodom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sofia,Bulgaria
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
Curious why you say this. I've been running all sorts of motors in my Mod 03 with and without caps and haven't ever noticed a difference. PN motors don't even come with caps anymore AFAIK, so if they are necessary then we would have to rush out and buy caps overnight.
I say this because of this thread, which proves me that a motor CAN cause glitching on 2.4 board.
As you already said the board itself has a capacitor between the motor terminals.
I am curious - have you tried KT-18 + car without motor caps?
__________________
Bodom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2.4 ghz vs am drhavy Transmitters, Receivers and Crystals 3 2011.01.04 09:33 AM
AWD 2.4 GHz, what breaks, wears out? lornecherry Mini-Z AWD MA-010, MA-015 4 2010.12.30 09:15 AM
MR-03 vs MR-02 ...reliability for rental cars lornecherry Mini-Z Racer MR-03, MR-03 VE, Sports Series, EVO 17 2010.12.28 07:31 AM
MR-01 2.4 ghz conversion MRB1GG Mini-Z Racer MR-01 5 2010.10.25 11:46 AM
2.4 Ghz backup lag Enzo3 Kyosho 2 2008.07.03 07:46 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts