Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2009.12.12, 08:49 PM   #31
rocketman
Thom Rocketman Belmont
 
rocketman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lake Sam Rayburn
Posts: 131
Most of my competitive racing experience is in 10th scale off-road and my team of racers did everything we could to eliminate bump steer. I ran some incredibly crazy steering geometries on my 2wd and 4wd cars because I was generally the worst guy on my team and so I was testing things for others and whether the track was slick or had tons of grip we hated bump steer. Never knew bump to be my friend.

CT is right on regarding toe theory and general practice.

Theory is great but it doesn't take into account your own abilities and skills and so sometimes you just got to go with what got you to the dance even if it isn't the best/fastest way to go.
__________________

Thom "The Rocketman" Belmont
Belmont Racing Team - BRT

Last edited by rocketman; 2009.12.12 at 08:49 PM. Reason: spelling
rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.12.13, 03:47 AM   #32
yasuji
PN RacingTEAM Driver
 
yasuji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
Send a message via AIM to yasuji Send a message via Yahoo to yasuji
Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Grant, you don't get the point... I am not saying that it is not faster or better than a king-pin set-up, but what I am saying is that the front end would be better without bump steer... If you still believe that it isn't, you probably never will, after all you are a PN guy, all the way...

I try to be objective as I can with my evaluations, be it a Reflex, PN, Atomic or 3 Racing part. I look for the best parts, regardless of brand. This is delicate topic for me because we do make a front end, and I try not to bring comparisons for this reason, because I respect Philip very much and his product line. The truth is, when I find a product that can be improved, I try to manufacture it, if it can't be improved, I simply run it, regardless of brand. If the 03 had not been released, you would have definitely seen a geometry correction kit for the PN front. I was already working on a different steering rack with adjustable tie rods to adjust toe and ackerman.

Fact is, my findings are consistent with everyone's on the PN front end. Be it Reflex drivers (who I tried to get to run the front for touring cars), forum members, or drivers from all over the US and Europe, the consensus is they feel the PN front makes their car wander more than the king-pin type front, not that it makes them slower lap per lap.

I am not debating the capability of an advanced driver to control this car quicker around the track with a PN double A-Arm system than with a king-pin type. Especially when you run as much scrub as you do with +3 front wheels. While you have an unorthodox driving style, car dynamics, are car dynamicss and what I am trying to get to is that for all practical applications, bump steer is not a desirable characteristic when engineering a front end. You eliminate it and you have a TRULY superior product that is both more consistent and faster around the track.

Basically, in a perfect world, a PN front with bumpsteer vs a PN front without bumpsteer the one without bumpsteer would be king.

About the 03; yes the 03's still bump in slightly, but it is a MASSIVE improvement over the PN front and the cars run much better and tracks straighter than a PN front ever has. I think I speak for the majority of drivers out there that this yields a more consistent car that is easier to drive lap in- lap out, all while still gaining the advantages of increasing camber.

I am not even going to touch on the active toe. You truly believe this is beneficial, and I will have to respectfully disagree with this as this is at odds with all theory and implementation of car design as well as with my 20+ years of experience racing RC cars.
i guess it just boils down to my driving style.....
__________________

Grant "Yasuji" Matsushima

PN Racing Team Driver
www.pnracing.com
gm@pnracing.com

yasuji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.12.13, 03:49 AM   #33
yasuji
PN RacingTEAM Driver
 
yasuji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
Send a message via AIM to yasuji Send a message via Yahoo to yasuji
Quote:
Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
Grant is a motorcycle guy. It is hard to work with bump steer with only one front wheel. That is why he likes so much caster. Right Grant?
lol...motorcycles have bump steer....it is called tucking the front......
and the other is called trail
__________________

Grant "Yasuji" Matsushima

PN Racing Team Driver
www.pnracing.com
gm@pnracing.com

yasuji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.12.13, 05:45 AM   #34
bermbuster
GF Racing
 
bermbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Metro NYC
Posts: 2,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuji View Post
i guess it just boils down to my driving style.....
Show em your driving style at the Tekin 1/28th Nats.....
__________________
GF Racing Team Driver
Dream Killr Racing.....Live the Dream
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
bermbuster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.12.13, 12:07 PM   #35
ianc
Registered User
 
ianc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 562
Quote:
i guess it just boils down to my driving style...
lol....nope....bump steer is never a good thing...lol

ianc
ianc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using toe for stability Programmers Setups 15 2008.12.29 02:28 PM
what is toe in / toe out? herman Setups 22 2008.11.09 10:22 PM
iWaver toe kit... 1ofdfew323 iWaver 0 2006.03.23 10:54 AM
Toe In Toe Out...wax On Wax Off ruknd@aol.com Parts and Hop-ups 0 2004.12.20 11:09 AM
Toe angle on mini-z + other questions Joseph Kong Beginner Questions 12 2001.12.02 07:53 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts