2012.04.22, 09:07 PM
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#31
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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cheap on amazon. i think it was $11 or less shipped if you have a prime account. it's useful but once i got the bench vise, i use that more. 1/8" wire is about the upper limit for the jig so it's not easy working with 1/8" wire. and to think i was going to go with 1/4"... i'd need a mighty wire bender for that one and those run about $20 something.
i edited the first post with costs for materials
Last edited by arch2b; 2012.04.22 at 09:22 PM.
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2012.04.28, 04:00 PM
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#32
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Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,497
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Brilliant work R! Where did you get the height values from? I'll see if I can measure ours for you if you like!
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2012.04.28, 05:01 PM
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#33
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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various suggestions.... nothing on trp website other than pick up sensor spacing, 10.25" btw. i will likely build a new set of stands once i get the bug to fix the height issue. just not motivated to do them all over again just yet. let me know what you set your bridge height at.
finished painting/clear coating the legs over the week. had to add another clear coat to the channel due to drilling out the double line clamp screw holes. the clear coat delaminated from the base coat as the bit punctured the surface which looked horrible. so, i need to wait another 48 hours for that to cure. it's all just a matter of assembly and testing now. all the fabrication has been completed.
Last edited by arch2b; 2012.04.28 at 07:43 PM.
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2012.04.28, 07:44 PM
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#34
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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made this little bracket to hold the extra sensor wire. i can wind it around and it will stay attached to the board.
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2012.04.29, 11:41 AM
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#35
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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2012.05.04, 01:53 PM
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#36
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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ran some tests over the last couple days.
current height 16"
pick up zone is approximately 18"x48". this means it picks up within 5" of either side and the full depth of the tile it's installed over. i need to shave 2 minimum, 4" preferred off the left/right to avoid miscounts on adjacent lanes.
adjusted height 14.25", no change to stand
pick up zone is approximately 16"x44". this means it no longer picks up cars against the rail in an adjacent lane. it shaves 1" off either side of the depth of the tile.
as is, it will work by placing the stand base on the floor vs. attaching to rails as designed. in order to function optimally and install as designed, i will need to modify the existing or remake the top portion of wire bend. i'm confident i can shave it down to 14" just by putting more bends in the stand to correct for the track width at the stand base. it's not optimal but possible.
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2012.08.05, 11:14 AM
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#37
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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anyone local (metro dc area) weld aluminum? looking to make 1/2"x1/2"x1/8" aluminum angle support legs but need to weld the joints at bends and ends to ensure durability and stability. i want it to be rock solid.
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2012.09.23, 03:40 PM
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#38
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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i've replaced the bridge stands with new ones in the design i had originally intended. the bridge height has been lowered to 13" to the bottom of the channel/15" to the top of the channel. the tested pick up zone has been reduced to approximately 15"x36". this means it's impossible to pick up traffic in an adjacent lane. the sensor spacing has been reduced from 10.25" to 9.5" as well.
if your wondering what the paper is for, i plotted a full size portion of track to track pick up zone info so i can fold it up and put it back in my bench for reference latter if needed. can't right on the track so this works well.
Last edited by arch2b; 2012.09.23 at 03:42 PM.
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2015.05.29, 11:44 AM
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#39
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REINSTATED
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 173
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Ray, that looks beautiful, awesome.
__________________
Thank You MINI-ZRACER.COM
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2015.05.29, 03:57 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
anyone local (metro dc area) weld aluminum? looking to make 1/2"x1/2"x1/8" aluminum angle support legs but need to weld the joints at bends and ends to ensure durability and stability. i want it to be rock solid.
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I can get it welded for you. Next time I see you I can pick it up and get it back to you.
__________________
DG-Designs / Brooklyn Hobbies
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2018.09.11, 11:23 PM
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#41
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bitPimp
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 668
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I'm in the initial stages of putting together a lap timing system for a personal track. Our club has a system, so I already have transponders and software, so the only real problem for me to tackle is the sensor bridge.
I really like this idea of it using the track as a base, and because I have similar limitations with available materials and tools, I really like the ingenious use of bent heavy gauge wire for the structure.
I just wanted to ask, now that several years have gone by:
Do you still like this design? Is your installation semi-permanent, or does it get set up and taken down weekly?
Has it held up well? Would you do anything differently if you were going to rebuild it now?
TIA!
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2018.09.12, 06:54 AM
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#42
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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It has held up very well. Just needed to re-tighten things periodically as they tend to loosen over time with movement.
While at Hobby Works, the track was setup and torn down each race day so the impetus if you will was to make something that was easy to assemble and take down, looked decent, was durable and wasn't an obstruction to sight lines. In this aspect, it succeeded very well.
If I had access to more tools, I would have used even heavier gauge wire and made a more robust clamp plate for the connection to the channel with possibly a flat head hex screw and locking nut/washer for a more seamless look. the cap head hex bolt works fine and is minimal enough as it is though.
Ideally, the channel would be made of plastic instead of aluminum. Aluminum channel isn't cheap and plastic would have provided sufficient durability. The only reason I had to use aluminum was availability as I simply couldn't find plastic channel.
If and when Hobby Works reopens a new space for us to race at, I'll need to start over again and rebuild everything and may take the opportunity to make some improvements. The key driver for me was easy to order components and common enough tools to build it at home vs. have it fabricated. You could honestly use 1/2" PVC pipe and surface mount all the bits but well, it looks like cheap PVC pipe in the end and that just wasn't going to cut it for me. I don't want to see wires, cables and stuff stuck onto a pipe as it doesn't give the appearance of a professional installation and I was operating in a retail environment and wanted to present a professional appearance for our club and the retailer we operated in vs. something that I pulled out of the trunk of my car and plopped down on the floor. I'm always a bit dismayed at retail stores that end up using what looks like the absolute cheapest construction for their tracks. The message it tells me is they didn't want to spend anything on it and as long as it works, they don't care. That's not the message I want to send with my work. Different strokes for different folks though
I'm sure I could have some fun cooking up a design with common plumbing pipe fittings, etc. and upsize the pipe to create recess openings to bury the pick up sensors in the pipe vs. attaching everything to the outside. I'd love to have a design charrette contest to solicit designs using only materials found at a hardware store.
In the end, a bigger issue was discrepancy in transponders (clones vs. genuine) and the signal bleed. There was a guy selling clone transponders on eBay however they had overpowered signal and had to get very deep into researching how to solve the problem and ended up with a off the shelf product that blocked that particular signal wavelength however the material itself is $60 sq.ft. so creating a signal blocker barrier for either side of the track that would attach to the bridge legs would have cost me over $600. In the end, I just end up using product samples as a temporary stop gap until there is enough need to justify the expenditure. Nothing worse really than having a lap counter that no one has faith in due to false pings, etc. reliability and accuracy are key to racer confidence in the results. 95% of the time however (for us), the issue is with the transponder/user error vs. the timing system.
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2018.09.13, 10:33 AM
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#43
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bitPimp
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 668
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Thanks for the info!
We've had a similar signal bleed issue we sometimes need to solve with a piece of cardboard, but the opacity is obviously not ideal.
Last edited by SuperFly; 2018.09.13 at 10:58 AM.
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2018.09.13, 11:57 AM
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#44
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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I did some research in our effort to eliminate this problem and found Signals Defense SD2500 works.
Quote:
SD 2500 / SD 2510 Signals Defense’s SD 2500 / SD2510 is a patented surface-applied RF window film that provides exceptional anti-eavesdropping and Technical Surveillance Counter-Measure (TSCM) security. The SD 2500/2510 series features impeccable security for wireless technologies (including WLAN or 802.11), energy savings and possible LEED credit, physical security, and UV protection. Signals Defense's SD2500 has been ASTM F3057-16 tested and exceeds IC requirements for RF attenuation and the critical Infrared protection levels.
Signals Defense RF/ IR attenuating window films protect your building by:
Rejecting RF/IR/UV signals
Preventing eavesdropping and theft of electronic data
Defeating IR laser microphones and EMI/RF transmissions
Providing blast protection
Reducing UV/Solar emissions
Containing surveillance/bugs
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We did numerous tests with samples they provided and confirmed it works. It's a tinted film that in no way obstructs vision. but would need to be applied to a piece of lexan or poly-carbonate panel. SD will fabricate custom orders but it is not cheap.
One cause for this was determined to be use of cheaper clone transponders that have differing capacitor and or other board components that alter the signal strength leading to signal bleed. In particular, this was determined to be so for I-Lap clone units from eBay as I coordinated this effort with I-Lap as well. When you cut corners to save a few bucks, not surprising it has unintended consequences that can be detrimental. In the end, the cost of custom designed and fabricated blocking panels would have exponentially surpassed any cost savings of the clone transponder. We also adjusted the bridge height to be about 12" above the track and reduced the pick up sensors from 3 to 2.
This is also why I prefer a channel shape vs. surface applied to a pipe as you get to tune the pickup so to speak by restricting the pickup zone. If your bridge is off to a corner on a large carpet track you have better opportunity to limit lane traffic from adjoining lane whereas with RCP, you would have to alter layout in a way that may not be practical for space constraints.
Last edited by arch2b; 2018.09.13 at 12:00 PM.
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2018.09.13, 03:03 PM
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#45
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Curmudgeon & Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 2,549
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Ray. There are clones from two different suppliers selling on Ebay. I checked with Craig at I-lap and he instructed me to stay away from the units being sold out of Texas but the ones that are being marketed out of Champaign Il were good quality. I have been using the Illinois units with complete success.. Check your resource.
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