2011.12.29, 01:30 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 68
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sorry another question, bodies are pan car vds style legal for gts, & other than pn 70/reflex ct70 & kyosho stock which motors are ok ? (club members asking & i want to be sure i tell them the right things)
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2011.12.30, 08:43 PM
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#17
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Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 863
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imx- I'm out of town at the moment, but I'll look into the track space when I get home. Its only the last three tracks (Mar-May) that we'd have to mirror, so changes to them shouldn't affect anyone running in the coming weeks.
saddad- For the two du Mans classes I was thinking in terms of the appropriate body style, but I'll stick to the letter of the regulations and say anything 98mm or less for GTS is legal. So VDS in GTS is good to go if it fits the wheelbase limit.
As for GTS class motors, as reg e.26 states "Any 130 class 'stock' brush motor of 70t or greater". If the motor is 70 turn or greater, its legal. In fact I'd love to see a motor war among all the manufacturers!
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2012.01.01, 06:43 AM
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#18
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Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 863
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I've made some updates to the FAQ back on post 14.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=14
I've also added some convenient log sheets to print out for race day. Info and the link are in the FAQ's General section.
The 80MdM regs PDF has been updated fixing the typo in c.1. It now correctly states "after the eight minutes has expired".
IMPORTANT: For those running the Formula Mini World Championship, remember it is a 70 lap race, not a timed 8min race like the 80Minutes du Mans.
Last edited by Dusty Weasle; 2012.01.01 at 06:46 AM.
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2012.01.04, 11:41 AM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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A few questions:
1. Can my group run one Main with all of us running LMP cars, and then another Main with all GTS cars? Or can we only run either LMP or GTS? It seems it's ok to run a mix in one race but I'm curious if we are allowed to treat them as separate classes?
2. LMP class doesn't require the LM tires right?
3. LMP class does not include the 98mm prototypes, correct?
4. F1 runs both ways as well, correct? So that'll be 2 F1 races per track?
5. F1 is going to basically be a staggered start race to a 70 lap limit?
Just getting the basics down here so I know what my guys have to bring. We may just skip LMP and just run GTS unless we can scrub up some LM bodies for my racers.
Last edited by imxlr8ed; 2012.01.04 at 11:50 AM.
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2012.01.05, 12:45 AM
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#20
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Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 863
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Q1: 80MdM Reg b.5: “Clubs may use any method to decide the grid order and Mains placement for the race. Classes may be mixed or run separately in both qualifying and the official race”.
Clubs may grid their Mains however they choose. LMP and GTS may be run together or separate. In the end they are all scored together by laps and time (Overall standings, LMP standings, and GTS standings from one set of points).
I'm not sure yet, but I expect Mini-AZ will grid by Heat results regardless of class. I figure it doesn't matter if you're running a Model-T or a 962, if you can run with the A crowd, then that's where you belong.
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Q2: LMP class, Reg e.13. “The front traction patch may be no wider than 9mm. The rear traction patch may be no wider than 12mm”.
So anything made of rubber less than or equal to those widths is good to go.
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Q3: Correct. Regs e.5.-e.6. For LMP the body may be made of any material, but must fit a 102mm or greater wheelbase without grinding out new wheel wells.
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Q4: Correct. FMWC Reg a.3. “... two rounds each, clockwise and anticlockwise...”. Same as OLPS. This is true of both 80MdM and FMWC, so both series combined run four points paying races per month.
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Q5: Correct. FMWC Reg a.3. “Each race shall be 70 laps in length”, and Reg c.2.”Cars grid in a staggered formation following the start grid pattern on track”. The grid is also true for the 80MdM.
Important for both series: FMWC and 80MdM Reg c.1. “Time begins on the start signal for all cars”. So its a staggered standing start on the horn for the Mains, not an “IFMAR” start. Of course you may run your qualifying Heats as you choose (Reg b.5). Mini-AZ uses IFMAR for Heats.
Last edited by Dusty Weasle; 2012.01.05 at 12:53 AM.
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2012.01.05, 10:14 AM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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80MdM, so 8 minute race... clock starts at go.
FMWC, start on the horn... each driver runs to 70 laps. Difference from a staggered start is that distance covered from grid to loop at start gets added to overall time. First loop cross registers 0 lap.
Do I have it?
Have to see if Core can do that for FMWC class... never tried it before. I worry that all lap counts will stop when the first driver completes 70 laps, I guess there is a way around that though.
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2012.01.05, 08:38 PM
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#22
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Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 863
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80MdM: Correct, exactly like OLPS, except now its two classes competing for the same 200 points each race. LMP has the power advantage, but GTS has the weight advantage.
FMWC works exactly like real F1 or NASCAR lap based races. The race starts for all drivers on the start signal. When the leader crosses the finish line completing lap 70 he takes the win while 2nd and back complete and count the lap they are on. After last place crosses the line the clock stops. Time is really only relevant for cars finishing on the same lap to determine position.
You can see an example of this on our FMGP of Phoenix event page here:
http://www.mini-az.com/resultsphoenixgp.html#F1GP_2011
(This is our annual full length Formula 1 race. Anyone in Phoenix in December come on over and race)!
CORE will correctly do lap based races. We used to do that in the early days of our AZGT series.
The grid distance, well, qualify up front then!
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2012.01.08, 09:00 PM
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#24
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MINI-Z BODY NUT
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: pa.
Posts: 5,028
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One question i do have...i think im just miss reading this but for F-1 and GTS, 70T or greater? I understand it as 70T or less or nothing faster than a 70T. It almost reads to me as 70T or faster (greater(+) if you understand what im refering to......THANKS.
__________________
MINI-Z BODY NUT
DG DESIGNS - PN RACING - MANTISWORX
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2012.01.08, 10:39 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Weasle
80MdM:
FMWC works exactly like real F1 or NASCAR lap based races. The race starts for all drivers on the start signal. When the leader crosses the finish line completing lap 70 he takes the win while 2nd and back complete and count the lap they are on. After last place crosses the line the clock stops. Time is really only relevant for cars finishing on the same lap to determine position.
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So... not everyone will get 70 laps? Like, if one of my racers laps me 10 times, and crosses their 70th lap, I would only get 60 laps because I am only allowed to finish that last lap? That doesn't seem fair because if a club has one guy who is blistering fast, that racer is going to screw his other club racers out of laps, whereas a club with a tighter group of laps will all finish with better counts than the drvers from the other club whose count got shut down earlier by the faster guy.
I understand how the system works but I think it only works when all the drivers would all be running together and that faster leader would shut it down for everyone at the same time.
Please tell me I have this all wrong.
Last edited by imxlr8ed; 2012.01.09 at 09:01 AM.
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2012.01.10, 01:04 AM
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#26
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Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 863
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None of us caught that little flaw in my carefully planned out system. Good catch. Well, I figured there would be some growing pains with version 1.0 of the series. This is a tough one.
You are correct. Effectively a club with one fast driver would cause all other drivers in that club to score lower against clubs with more evenly matched drivers, even if the other clubs were slower overall. Unfortunately this appears to be a unique limitation of the on-line format regarding lap based races.
So here's the plan (I will be contacting the registered clubs by email as well): If no one has run the January FMWC yet I will revert that series to the 8min format we are familiar with from OLPS. If anyone has already run that race we will have to stick to the 70 lap format, however Hood came up with an interesting patch to the scoring system to make it fair. But I think we'd be better off just switching to 8min if we can.
Sorry about this guys. I was trying to bring us something a little different from what we've been doing with timed races. Even as a timed race though, its still longer tracks so you can better open up the throttle on those F1's!
THIS CHANGE AFFECTS THE FMWC ONLY. 80MDM REMAINS AS-IS.
If any clubs have already run the January FMWC please let me know immediately. Otherwise I will update the FMWC Regs shortly to be an 8min race rather than 70 laps.
Thanks for your patients in ironing out this last minute issue.
“Looks like we've had our glitch for this mission”.
--- Jim Lovell, Apollo 13
Last edited by mleemor60; 2012.01.10 at 01:24 PM.
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2012.01.10, 01:24 AM
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#27
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Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 863
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lfisminiz- The Reg is referring to the number of motor winds, meaning 70 or more winds. So for example the PNWC70 or PNWC80 would be legal, but a 50t motor would not.
FAQ updated
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=14
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2012.01.10, 07:34 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 82
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HerefordF28UK applied to join the winter series this morning.
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2012.01.10, 11:17 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Weasle
…
None of us caught that little flaw in my carefully planned out system. Good catch. Well, I figured there would be some growing pains with version 1.0 of the series. This is a tough one.
You are correct. Effectively a club with one fast driver would cause all other drivers in that club to score lower against clubs with more evenly matched drivers, even if the other clubs were slower overall. Unfortunately this appears to be a unique limitation of the on-line format regarding lap based races.
So here's the plan (I will be contacting the registered clubs by email as well): If no one has run the January FMWC yet I will revert that series to the 8min format we are familiar with from OLPS. If anyone has already run that race we will have to stick to the 70 lap format, however Hood came up with an interesting patch to the scoring system to make it fair. But I think we'd be better off just switching to 8min if we can.
Sorry about this guys. I was trying to bring us something a little different from what we've been doing with timed races. Even as a timed race though, its still longer tracks so you can better open up the throttle on those F1's!
THIS CHANGE AFFECTS THE FMWC ONLY. 80MDM REMAINS AS-IS.
If any clubs have already run the January FMWC please let me know immediately. Otherwise I will update the FMWC Regs shortly to be an 8min race rather than 70 laps.
Thanks for your patients in ironing out this last minute issue.
“Looks like we've had our glitch for this mission”.
--- Jim Lovell, Apollo 13
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Whew... was worried I was imagining things.
Ok... we would've raced it either way but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
And once again Larry, "70t or greater" does not equal 70t or faster! Now put all those Mod motors back in storage!
Last edited by mleemor60; 2012.01.10 at 01:24 PM.
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2012.01.11, 11:31 PM
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#30
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Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 863
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Luckily it appears none of the clubs have run their January race yet, so we are implementing the FMWC change effective immediately.
At this time the FMWC has been changed to a time based race. This addresses the scoring problem caused by a quirk of lap based races in the on-line format. Registered clubs will also be informed via email.
*** FMWC is now an 8 minute race, not a lap based race ***
(So same as we did in the OLPS, just on a bigger track )
The FMWC regs are updated here:
http://www.mini-az.com/isrldownloads.html
(The only change is to make it 8min)
Again, sorry about this hiccup. I was hoping to do something different for FM, but as it turns out lap based will not work on-line.
(Note: The 80MdM is unchanged)
FAQ updated to reflect the FMWC change.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=14
Last edited by Dusty Weasle; 2012.01.11 at 11:33 PM.
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