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Old 2015.04.11, 08:47 AM   #16
arch2b
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at top tier events, it happens. in average club racing, not so much and when it does, just as easy to attribute it to grazing a corner, take a few wide turns, etc. as you mentioned. again, it comes down to what type of club atmosphere your dealing with. i'm not in a club where everyone is going all out in terms of cash and tweaking cells to get that extra 100th of a second when keeping a clean and consistent line is by far the more advantageous strategy. clean and consistency wins 9 times out of 10.
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Old 2015.04.11, 11:37 AM   #17
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It is not 1/100th of a second but sometimes closer to 3/10th - 5/10th a lap In a 50 lap race that is up to 25 seconds Now that is usually the extreme as it is usually coser to 3/10th a lap I have noticed just on batteries. If nobody else is doing it than I agree it may not be neccesary but like I have said isn't nice to be faster than everyone else? I am not saying that if you are racing with a non-competitve crowd you will automatically see this difference because if you are a bad driver you cannot handle the extra speed but for someone who can drive a decent line the difference is noticable and justifiable. An edge is and edge, no matter how big or small. If someone has the money to do it why would you tell them otherwise if the only negativve aspect is money? Well I know why... you would prefer for everybody to not spend money so you don't have to either. It makes sense really... keep everyone in the stone ages so you can stick to your own budget and effort put into mini-z. I like the matched batteries, they made the racing closer and the performance more consistent and there were NO downsides. Spending time and money on batteries is a touchy subject because it takes time and money, but a few who would rather not spend that time or money should not tell others it is "not noticable" or not neccesary just for their selfish reasons. I have nothing to gain from anyone else matching batteries or putting lots of time into their batteries because I run lipo so why would I hide the truth? Just something to think about... Batteries are the quickest way to pick up speed and any serious racer should consider batteries an investment well worth their time and money.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that matched batteries only gave that "1/100th" difference? Have you ever experienced driving with matched batteries? Do you own enough sets to come to an educated conclusion on the matter? It seems by your logic if you see it in use somewhere else or have a certain opinion on it you automatically become the expert on the subject matter. I am not trying to call anyone out but I have provided my INFORMED expereince not my guesstimate or opinion. If you never give anything a chance because you disregard it as miniscule or unnesscary you will never see any improvement or change. Would you feel the same about a software that mapped out the fastest lines on the track? This is theoretical of course but because it would go into the category of practice and driving clean lines by your logic that would be a valuable investment no matter the cost, despite the fact that it would simultaenously cheapen the racing and break the bank.

Last edited by DMALMAD; 2015.04.11 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 2015.04.11, 12:33 PM   #18
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If you feel the need to go to extremes to extract the last miniscule amount of energy out of a Nimh battery in order to gain an advantage then have at it. It is for that, among other reasons that people are or have moved to the small lipo's that are available. It provides a higher voltage and allows for more speed just for the sake of it and opens the door for those that do not have the skills to utilize the outdated technology that is needed to coax the nth degree out of the nickel's.

I have competed at Fairfax, Remnant, Railyard, Myrtle Beach, Miami Motorsports, Maj's and some others. I have visited Inside Line in Cupertino and a couple of other left coast tracks and I didn't or haven't yet found a single facility that has held a race that was for a specific number of laps as opposed to a specified time. Since the races are timed it kind of "lick's" the color off the notion of overall speed unless you are competing for most spectacular crash or highest number of broken parts. Sure. It's nice to be able to say "I ran a 9.00 flat lap" but the guy that runs a mean of 10.00 flat is likely to turn more laps in the given time for the race.

Are there gains to be made from hyper vigilance of your battery charging idiosyncracies? Certainly. You can learn discipline and patience. Is it necessary? Well, different strokes as they say. The best driver with a well tuned and set up chassis is still going to "Kiss the Queen" even if he is running alkaline's.
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Old 2015.04.11, 02:23 PM   #19
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Yes, I once bought into the notion I 'had' to do this or that to be competitive and spent the money and the time but I happen to run into some really fast, really intuitive drivers over the years that opened my eyes so to speak. I'm not nocking the efforts in question, they will make a difference, which no one questioned. It really doesn't take a lot of money to do it either. It's time consuming for sure but doesn't have to be really expensive.
As I've said over and over, it really depends on the atmosphere you compete in. Thankfully ours is both competitive, challenging and geared toward enjoyment. I'm far more happy with where we are at as a club now than ever before. I certainly hope it is the same for others irregardless of the differences in club culture. If your motivation takes you in a particular direction, follow. I know racers that enjoy the preparation, battery care, etc. just as much as racing. I know some that just take the stuff out of a box once or twice a month for thrill of the race and still do very well. I don't portray the facts as anything but as they are. You don't need to spend a fortune to be competitive, challenging and enjoy the sport. It's really that simple and nothing more to it that that. The rest is group think and club culture.
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Old 2016.01.27, 03:39 AM   #20
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Sorry Guy's for replying to a " old" post,
But I agree with arch2b `s answer and think its spot on.
This miniz racing is the best racing class ever. It will get us new contenders in RC racing, wich we need, because it doesn`t matter what you spend, experience is what counts. Just one car with 4 sets batts and a charge/discarge rig is all you need. Fun though for me is tingling with the countless options that are available and the Bling Bling.

Though racing 8th class onroad nitro in the summer Nationals its Always good/nice to start with miniz racing.

But DMALMAd has a point though. It is not what we generally tell newcommers though because its really difficult to get that last tenth of a second and only experienced and DEDICATED drivers manage to do.

But i have respect for these guys who do manage.

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Old 2016.08.08, 03:06 PM   #21
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I am late to an old post as well... but I will say that when I was racing regularly, I stopped racing stock due to the amount of NiMH maintenance required to be competitive locally.

You had to match cells, and go through 6-10 motors to find the one that had the best power curve for the layout... These 70t cars would outpace many 50t cars with a standard charge and drive approach. People would discharge their cells, and hold them at low voltage for the entire week, which required multiple dischargers... it was really a week long process to get the cells to the point that they were going to give you enough power to race competitively.

After a small hiatius, I returned to the track to run a 70t class, bought brand new cells which were good, got on the track, ran perfect laps.... and was being passed on the straight like I was standing still. My general driving style was momentum oriented, and I typically excelled in stock over mod, but there was no way to keep up.

Its what happens when competitive racers use every trick in the book to race a stock class. Its fast, but the expense is just too high, and why I mostly raced mod classes, since you didn't need the best batteries, a good motor choice would give you all of the speed that you needed. The standard battery maintenance was all that was required. Once LiPo was introduced at the track, it was so much easier to go back to charge and drive status.

My AAA battery care was Much More CTX-D2 5a linear discharge to .2v per cell, with a 700mah charge on LaCrosse BC700. On the MM discharger, you can see the average voltage, and seconds that it took for the cell to discharge, so you can match that way and weed out the ill performing cells. And with a 5a discharge, there is much more voltage sag than a lower amperage discharge, so the .2v per cell doesnt damage the cell. Typically, damage occurs when discharging unmatched cells in a pack, when the lower capacity cell dumps, polarity reverses and damage is inflicted.

For AAA mod racing, I typically use lower voltage cells with more capacity... for stock, I use highest average voltage cell with minimum of about 600mah capacity.
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Old 2016.08.09, 01:42 PM   #22
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wow glad I get into this argument
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Old 2016.08.10, 11:18 AM   #23
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TBH it is really a mute point now though. The guys still running AAA around me don't mess with their cells the same way people used to. The last vestige of nimh racing is 90mm and some stock racing and everything else seems to have moved towards lipo so the racers that want everything to be about pure performance and driving skill have more power than they can shake a stick at (I recently tried 10000 kv with lipo in my Atomic chassis and its just crazy ballistic ) and the stock class and fun classes are slow and just that... strictly fun.
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Old 2016.08.10, 11:27 AM   #24
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'fast' is a relative term. for those that are not exposed to lipo outlaw/mod class platforms, a well tuned 70T or 50T is plenty fast. i can understand why they would seem slow if lipo is the predominate class in your area but where it's not, 'fast' has a different frame of reference
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Old 2016.08.11, 01:15 AM   #25
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We still use NiMH pretty much exclusively at our local meets. There is a pretty big difference in performance in the same class (we run a 70T class and "open") when using inexpensive NiMHs/Chargers and good batteries and quality chargers. I've never gotten around to investing in a good quality charger for my Mini-Zs mostly because the atmosphere at our club is pretty casual so you don't need it to have fun and be fairly competitive. I use Eneloops and a basic multi-chemistry cheap-o charger. Works fine for what I need it for though admittedly, those at our meets who use good chargers/batteries together tend to have the quickest cars by quite a margin. I'm also fairly sure your batteries last a lot longer (get more cycles) when charged with good chargers versus cheapies like mine.

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Old 2016.08.11, 06:29 AM   #26
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sounds a lot like our group competitive but fun. we have some who have good chargers, better battery care practices and while most still tend to use inexpensive batteries, they are indeed faster however it also has to do with their skills being high as well. i don't begrudge them at all though. I personally use it as a motivator to better my skills on the track so that i can get even closer with what i'm using. a fast car without the means to control it on the track is futile.
most of our club runs duratrax cells which are sold inexpensively at the LHS we race in. i happen to have eneloop's myself but i got a batch on sale so price wasn't much more overall. i've been running this batch for almost 2 years now.

Quote:
For AAA mod racing, I typically use lower voltage cells with more capacity... for stock, I use highest average voltage cell with minimum of about 600mah capacity.
this is pretty common at our group as well for those that have analyzed their cells.
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Old 2016.08.11, 01:17 PM   #27
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I'll chime in with what I do. Recently I changed my charging/discharging practices and have noticed a good difference. Due to time availability I used to discharge the day prior to charging and charge the day before racing. My batteries were always "alright". I used a Hitec X4 AC/DC charger and PN discharge trays.

The recent changes I have made are to use my other Hitec X4 DC only charger and connect it to a good power supply I bought with my iCharger. Just the addition of the separate power supply made a very noticeable difference in the top speed and power of the batteries and my car. Since then I changed to discharging and and charging the same night before racing. I wish I could charge the day of racing but don't have the time.

My equipment used is a Hitec X4 DC charger, Generic 75 amp power supply, PN charging and discharging trays, Homemade charge leads (14ga), and Peak 900 AAA batteries.

My method is to discharge till the lights go out or more. Charge at 1.5amps, .5mv delta peak with the cutoff at 900 mah. Most packs will cutoff at 860-900mah and seem to have good power.

I wish I had the time and energy to put into squeezing every ounce of performance out of batteries and motors for stock racing but I dont and probably wouldnt race if I had to. My advice to most would be to spend that time practicing and running laps to make yourself faster instead of making the car faster.
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Old 2016.08.11, 03:00 PM   #28
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That last sentence is sage advice, indeed.
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Old 2016.08.12, 08:42 AM   #29
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I agree as well. Don't have the time myself to prep batteries like I used to. Matching batteries does make a difference but if you are just starting out in this hobby, concentrate on driving and car set up first.
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