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Old 2004.12.21, 09:59 AM   #1
THRC Dan
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Mini Cup USA Class Discussion

Lets discuss ideas on class setup for the championship. Keeping in mind as Arch suggested... Lets keep it simple.

I think chassis is one thing, but if you really want to match driver agains driver, the motor or power plant should be as close as possible especially in the stock and super stock classes. For Pro or Unlimited, then that is what it is. That class is total outlaw.

Lets continue to discuss. The first race will be in June of 2005 so we have time to work it out..
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Old 2004.12.21, 11:28 AM   #2
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If you really want to match driver-to-driver in the stock class, you may want to regulate the radio transmitter and boards as well as the motors much the same way Kyosho did in the Mini-Z-Cup. I would allow rechargeable batteries though simply because many racers I know can't stand that limitation and have told me they would no longer race "stock" simply because of the added battery expense. Some may "match" batteries anyway--recall the Kyosho only and/or CP stickered GP Batteries.
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Old 2004.12.21, 12:02 PM   #3
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box stock should be just that.... your limited to whatever came in the box. i do agree that the akaline batt rule should be axed. it's very expensive to begin with... i don't mind putting fine print to include wheel nuts as those have nothign to do with performance adn i am simply tired of seeing stock ones fly off at races. tire rules should be similat to kyosho rules. infact i would start this off by copying the kyosho rules and modeifying them to remove manufact. requirements. for the most part they are very simple and easy to follow rules.

there HAS to be a class for turbo/fet cars. i simply have too many and the thought of not being able to run them would be very frustrating.

thrc, let me know if you want me to pull some of the other replies in the other thread to fill this one as a few have posted suggested classes/rules in them.
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Old 2004.12.21, 12:12 PM   #4
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I think, and it's my thought only, that classes needed to be made based on motors only, which means stock motor and modified - means anything but stock. Everything else should be allowed. I seriously doubt it that highly fetted car would have any advantage upon unmodified car with X-speed on the tight RCP or similar track.
Since picking the right setup is also driver-dependent, i think we don't need to exclude this factor by limiting the tires, bearings, batteries, radios etc.
Right, at some point winning will become $$$ dependent, but most of the guys who'll attend those races have already invested twice the price of the car into the upgrades, so what's the point?
Also, i saw two clubs not surviving just because they were too strict on the rules about who can run and what. Lets not repeat their mistakes
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Old 2004.12.21, 12:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michvin
I think, and it's my thought only, that classes needed to be made based on motors only, which means stock motor and modified - means anything but stock. Everything else should be allowed. I seriously doubt it that highly fetted car would have any advantage upon unmodified car with X-speed on the tight RCP or similar track.
Since picking the right setup is also driver-dependent, i think we don't need to exclude this factor by limiting the tires, bearings, batteries, radios etc.
Right, at some point winning will become $$$ dependent, but most of the guys who'll attend those races have already invested twice the price of the car into the upgrades, so what's the point?
Also, i saw two clubs not surviving just because they were too strict on the rules about who can run and what. Lets not repeat their mistakes
um... i have video that shows how unequal an unfetted and fetted car with an x-speed actually is on an rcp track. fets or factory upgraded fets do give you a considerable advantage.

certain tx's claim to give certain advantages, thus the rules. if you leave it open, the factory sponsor guys with deep pockets will scoop everyting up and who wants that? not me. the point of leveling the playing field is give as many as possible an equal chance at winning. when you don't have restrcitions, it's whomever has the biggest wallet wins for the most part. there are always excpetions to that rule but you all get my point. rules are required, just limit them to be as simple, understandable, and easily applicable as possible
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Old 2004.12.21, 12:21 PM   #6
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Red face opps, don't knwo how the quote thing happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
um... i have video that shows how unequal an unfetted and fetted car with an x-speed actually is on an rcp track. fets or factory upgraded fets do give you a considerable advantage.

certain tx's claim to give certain advantages, thus the rules. if you leave it open, the factory sponsor guys with deep pockets will scoop everyting up and who wants that? not me. the point of leveling the playing field is give as many as possible an equal chance at winning. when you don't have restrcitions, it's whomever has the biggest wallet wins for the most part. there are always excpetions to that rule but you all get my point. rules are required, just limit them to be as simple, understandable, and easily applicable as possible
the kyosho series didn't go under due to rules... remove the manufac. specifics from them and i feel they are very easy to follow.
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Old 2004.12.21, 12:31 PM   #7
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to get this down to basics even further..... why don't we discuss classes (easily identifiable basic understanding of what they are based on, such as motor, pcb, etc, etc.) first and decide on modifying rules according to class second. we could debate rules for months and get no where. the task at hand is to bring all this information into a developing idea. start simple and work up....
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Old 2004.12.21, 01:18 PM   #8
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Box stock means no diffs, no bearings, no shocks...this is too limiting. I agree with Michvin. Motors are the good guideline...maybe motors and fets. Tx is the most expensice hop up for a stock fet and motor car and its makes the least amount of difference. Springs, diff adjustment, and tire chioce are things that should be able to be customized and let a driver change this due to teh track and style.

Maybe make fets the limiting factor...you cant run a PN S04 in a stock car...and at that level let people have the option to choose.

Personally, I like how 1:10 rules are set up. As for cost? Of all of us that will be competing how many have a box stock car to race. It may cost me more to race box stock...I'd have to get a new car .


Just food for thought guys...
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Old 2004.12.21, 01:28 PM   #9
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I think box stock is critical in order to appeal to newbies and those on a smaller budget. I do think that wheel nuts, NiMH AAAs, and tires should be allowed though. Tires could be limited to 30-50d or something, but there's no way we can limit them to what came on the car due to wear. Here's a thought - what about handouts for the box stock class - stock motor, tires, and cells would be handed out and included in the reg. cost? Otherwise, you're going to get someone like me w/ Squat Zapped NiCads, HUDY trued stock tires, and massaged stock motor!
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Old 2004.12.21, 01:35 PM   #10
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that might be ok with places like pn and cp but if i were to host something that would definatley not be possible unless the sponsors picked up that part of it. for the most part, that's all money fronted by the host and this potential host has nothing to front

stock class should be stock. simple, easy. any mods (other than wheel nuts, and tires) puts you into the modified class similar to the k. rules. i think trying to enforce tire rules is pretty much a joke though unless you go with the k. rules and eliminate foams. cells, well we've all seen the trouble those can cause. especially when people charge inbetween heats etc, i don't think the newbies will flip for the added cost to buy multiple sets. that doesn't mean i'm opossed toi the idea though.

Last edited by arch2b; 2004.12.21 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 2004.12.21, 01:53 PM   #11
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the best way to discuss it is to make a list of all possible/popular upgrades and then decide.
Tires.... well, 30 deg K's tires effectively rule out fetted cars since they provide no traction (even those trued on Hudy) on fatigue mats, i.e. flat RCP surface...
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Old 2004.12.21, 02:24 PM   #12
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We need to remember that part of the skill of RC driving is set-up...if we are going box stock, here's an option, part of the entry fee includes the purchase of 6 cars that stay racing...the racers rotate cars each heat. Here, you dont always have the same car. Some saiboat class races use this method and it is a close to a level playing field as possible.

Personally, I think a race like this tests a drivers ability to drive but not skill. Pure stock eliminates too may tuning options. Also, I've noticed that a novice running a hot motor will not be able to control the car. I just got back into the hobby after about 15 years out and the novices using a stock 19 turn are faster than those running the low turn orions. Likewise in the stock and mod classes, the driver with the tightest line and least amount of crashes tends to win.

the pro drivers and the novice drivers competing in that class will have similar equiptment. so I think its gotta be a rotating box stock race or a set up like ROAAR or NORRCA
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Old 2004.12.21, 02:37 PM   #13
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How about no classes?
I'll explain what i mean:
You do the qualifying and finals. Thats all. I suspect that at least at the start of the series the attendance would be quite low. So we might end with 3 cars in each class. And to handle multi-class event takes a lot of time, couple of days, actually.
Most of our events would be one-day. Later, if it gets going and growing, classes can be introduced.
Just a thought...
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Old 2004.12.21, 02:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michvin
the best way to discuss it is to make a list of all possible/popular upgrades and then decide.
Tires.... well, 30 deg K's tires effectively rule out fetted cars since they provide no traction (even those trued on Hudy) on fatigue mats, i.e. flat RCP surface...
RE Tires, I was talking about for Box Stock only - other classes should be unlimited.
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Old 2004.12.21, 02:42 PM   #15
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hmmm... that is true. hate the idea of hand out cars though.

maybe allow spring and h plate options as well then and call it pro stock or something? when you get to allowing all the hop ups though your axing the modified class. dont' go by motors.... the pcb can make or break a motor.
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