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Old 2003.09.25, 12:18 AM   #1
herman
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Location: makati, philippines
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calling miketre... tips on installing 4562

fyi, recently, a newbie at my LHS damaged 4pcs of 4562 while after installing them. Since he didn't have any more FETs, I gave him my 7389 which I had lying around since I changed to 4562. He installed them without any problem.

I did notice that he tends to leave the soldering iron on the FETs for a long time (2-4 s). I don't know what causes the the FETs to be damaged, but it might be possible that they are less heat resistant than the 7389.
just fyi
- from miketre


hi miketre...

as i read in the other thread... are there any tips on installing these 4562 fets??? leaving the soldering iron on the fets for 2-4 seconds is long??? i've done some fets with a 30watt soldering iron... hmm i think i have to practice some more and solder them faster than 2-4 seconds... i think you need to be really skilled to have them on in less than 2 seconds... is there a special soldering iron or solder that you need to solder them on?

did your friend put it in the mr01 or mr02? what was the result of his soldering 4562??? was it able to run the motor? or was it just dead? or was there a delay in forward/reverse?

(side note: i've done a single stack 7389 and experienced a delay going forward... didn't have any extra pair, so i just put the original fets back and didn't experience any problems... just thinking that you might need a 2 stack minimum for the 7389 fets??? or did i destroy one of my fets since i didn't take any precautions against static electricity??? will using magnetized tweezers ruin them???)

how many 4562 did you put in your z? will a single stack 4562 work???

my friend is in singapore until tomorrow... any chance for him to get a mr02? or are they all sold out???

thanks and best regards to all who helped my friend, thanks too shadow00....

appologize for too many questions...
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Old 2003.09.25, 03:59 AM   #2
miketre
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ooops did's see this thread. i replied in the other one instead. Here's the text (copy n paste), so that we can continue it in this thread

enzo
hi Herman, for the enzo, you can try

1) SC Speedracer
http://www.sc-speedracer.com/sc
33A Jalan Besar, 2nd Level (opposite Sim Lim Tower)
Singapore 208799
Phone: 6293 4116

there's a map on their website, under "contact us".
It's at the 2nd flr of a 2 storey shophouse. There's a big banner outside their shop (opp the bus stop), so it's hard to miss.
It's just outside the CBD (Central Business District) area, about 5km from the hotel that your friend is in.

Pls give them a call 1st b4 going down, the last time I checked, they were selling the Enzo for SGD$269 and had only 1 left

2) a member @ our LHS is selling off his new-in-box Enzo. I heard he bought 2 and is selling off the other at $239.
see http://www.jcube-hobby.com/forum/sh...hp?threadid=254

btw, Jcube is the other LHS track that we have here, but it is closed for 4 days (owner taking part in an RC competition in THailand). They have also sold out their shipment of Enzos

3) Toykar
http://www.toykar.com/
They are the Kyosho distributor in SIngapore
walking distance from your friend's hotel
http://www.toykar.com/profile.html
583, Orchard Road
B1-11 Forum The Shopping Mall
Singapore 238884
Fax:8362079

just a few hundred metres west of your friend's hotel

their main branch is at the address below, but it's not that near from the hotel.
170, Upper Bukit Timah Rd
#04-57, #04-K24 Bukit Timah Shopping Centre, Singapore 588179
Tel: 64681848, 64698035
Fax: 64668330



4) HobbyBug
http://www.hobbybugonline.com/
tel: (65) 6 222 0725
fax: (65) 6 220 0920
address 20 Marina Mall, #01-01 Marina South Singapore 019392

about 5 km away from your friend's hotel



note: pls give them a call before making a trip, so u won't end up with a wasted trip
to see a map of the locations, visit www.streetdirectory.com
from this page, you can search for maps of places in Singapore just by enterring info such as postal code or streetname. very useful
pls buy/bring batts to test it on the spot. I've seen 1 brand new Enzo with steering problem (wires were probably crossed or VR busted), so it's better to be paranoid than sorry



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Old 2003.09.25, 04:00 AM   #3
miketre
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4562 FETs

Hi Herman,
just to carify, I meant 2-4 seconds on each leg
I don't think that the FETs are faulty, as another member used the FETs from the same tube just moments earlier. My guess is propably;

1) he didn't ground himself before touching the FETs. actually, the other member didn't ground himself too
2) the soldering iron is probably too hot (dunno the rating - belongs to the LHS) and he heated the fets for too long.

personally, I'm using a 25W soldering iron and have not burned out any FETs while installing them.

oh, the 2 members above installed the FETs on their F1

the member who burned out the FETs had to use a relatively long time to get the solder on each leg as he had a poor soldering technique. he used the soldering iron to touhc the solder to get them on, and then placed the soldering iron on the FET legs. This is not advisable as when the solder reaches the legs, most of the flux would have disappeared and the chances of getting a cold solder joint is higher (btw, he was advised of all this before starting the job)

I also did look at the soldering before he turned on his car (there was no multimeter available at that time to check for shorts) and it looked fine.

the car ran when he turned it on, but the FETs very quickly became too hot to touch (only after about 4 seconds), even after turning it off and on again and without running the motor.
in less than 2 minutes, there was a burning smell coming from the FETs.
so... after installing the FETs, u might want to place your finger on the FETs and turn on the car.

the thing is, he managed to sucessfully install his steering FETs with the stock FETs controlling the motor (2x2 steering FETs). He also managed to sucessfully install the 7389 FETs that I gave him.

my F1, MR-01 and MR-02 currently have 3x2 (4562) stacks in them. Once I get the MR-02 knuckles, I'll set up my MR-015 and resume testing, but I expect myself to go down to 2 layers or only 1 layer in order to last 15 minutes with the AMB transponder on. Anyway, our tracks are too small get a significant advantage with a 6x2 over, say a 2x2
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Old 2003.09.25, 04:00 AM   #4
miketre
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Quote:
Originally posted by e_lm_70
My 2 cent:

By my experience on using a iron I will say:

- It is far more easy/safe to keep on the PCB the original FET
- It look like that having on the same stack different type of FET will generate better result (some FET are faster to switch, some can provide more Amp ...)

A result, the ideal stack is 3x2:

3004 + 7389 + 4562 .

With this combination you are sure to use always the fastest FET and the almost max Amp ... linearity could be little bit compromized, but the degradation is probably similar to the standard stack of 7389 or 4562.

e_lm_70

P.S: The last challange to get the best performance on a Mini-Z is to go on a Brushless
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Old 2003.09.25, 04:58 AM   #5
herman
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appologize for double posts... just wanted to make sure that you got it... anyway... if anybody see's this they get extra tips on how to solder on the new fets...

thanks again...
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Old 2003.09.25, 11:05 AM   #6
miketre
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no prob Herman.

His car ran fine with a single layer of 7389. single layers of 7389 are not common here, so I can't tell. 2x2 is the common config here.
shadow00 is using a single layer of 4562 on his F1 with no probs.
I don't know if a magnetic tweezer would spoil it, sorry.

the way that i do them is;

1) remove the original FETs using the technique in the video that can be found at Wedginator's page. They should come off using minimal force. Don't end up ripping the trace (several ppl have done so). If you have difficulties in heating the solder, u may want to add some solder or flux to both sides of the chip. (helps to spread out the heat)
2) I use solder flux on the remaining solder on the board, and then remove them using copper braid
3) I apply a small amount of my more expensive solder (silver filled solder) to the board. don't apply too much to the side facing the front wheel or u might short them later in step 5
4) I place the fet on the board and hold them in place with a tweezer and heat the motor side with the iron (all 4 legs at once)
If need be, i reheat the solder at the motor side to realign the chip
5) I apply downward pressure on the chip and heat the 4 legs of the other side (again, all at once)
The 1st layer chip will fall nicely into place and make good contact with the board.
6) I then apply downward pressure and re-heat the motor side (4 legs at once), just to make sure that the fet is absolutely flat with the board
7) prepare the upper layer FETs (straighten the legs, then bend them down) and apply solder grease to them and heat it with the solder
8) I place the FET on the 1st layer and apply solder on the motor side, so that I don;t have to hold them when doing the other, more difficult side
9) do the other side
10) check for shorts with an ohmmeter. I usually end up needing to reheat certain legs.

The way I solder is
1) place the solder wire on the leg of the chip
2) just briefly touch the solder wire with the soldering iron and the solder will flow down onto the legs

The disadvantage to using this method is that u sometimes need 3 hands. 1 to hold the solder wire, 1 to hold the items to be soldered and 1 to hold the soldering iron. with practice, u should be able to do the 1st 2 things with 1 hand.
btw, use a rubber band or rubber ring around the tweezer holding the fet. THis way, u don't have to apply pressure holding the legs together, but just have to hold it in position

sometimes, I tend to flip the board 90deg, so that it stands vertically. I do this when I find that the solder flows down to the base too quickly and shorts the bottom, while not covering the upper layers.

Hope that helps

Last edited by miketre; 2003.09.26 at 03:40 AM.
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Old 2003.09.26, 01:59 AM   #7
shadow00
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Hi herman,

Sorry I didn't notice this post earlier.

I've passed the FETs to your friend in his hotel. He should be on his way back today. I've actually helped him to call afew of the LHS but all of them had the Enzo sold out. Sorry can't help him further.

As for my F1, I just have a single layer of 4562 and I'm comfortable with it. I've just installed a 2x2 4562 on my self-built MR-015 and haven't tested it yet.

I didn't burn any chips, even when I left the soldering iron on the chips for more than 15secs at about 400deg Cels. I'm not sure what's the wattage at 400deg Cels, but my chips are still working fine.
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Old 2003.09.26, 03:46 AM   #8
miketre
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just added some text in step 7 & 10 in my previous post.

Herman ->
Check out this page for soldering tips Introduction to soldering

As you can see, my method is not the recommended one. It does however, works for me. After reading the article, I think I prob didn't have any problems as I ended up reheating most of the legs to make sure that I get a good contact from top to bottom.

shadow00 ->
How did you measure the temp of the iron? Did u do it by using a digital multimeter?

btw, 15 secs is.. errr.. quite long...

Last edited by miketre; 2003.09.26 at 03:56 AM.
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