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Old 2009.12.08, 11:04 PM   #31
CristianTabush
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I'll look into it Ian, although I don't know if I can justify the MOQ amounts.

And yes, toe out makes the car a bit more unstable...
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Old 2009.12.09, 07:39 AM   #32
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all this time i thought i had it right. i have a feeling other think the same as me, as i know i read it on hear somewhere.
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Old 2009.12.09, 07:47 AM   #33
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I believe you guys have sparked a new conversation

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33265
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Old 2009.12.09, 09:26 AM   #34
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Toe in: Stability. Less agressive turn in.
Toe out: Instability. More turn in.
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Old 2009.12.09, 09:31 AM   #35
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But also. Keep in mind that the caster angle also actually adds stabilty to the car. This is very noticeable in the WTF2 when the toe out bar is used. The car is still very stable.
Try running the same toe out angle with 0 degree caster. The car will be more twitchy on the straight, and be a little unstable when the track is bumpy.
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Old 2009.12.09, 09:34 AM   #36
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The additional caster works since it gives more high speed steering. We used to use caster adjustment alot on the 1/5 scale cars. Fact seems that most guys using the WTF and WTFV2 pieces are driving mod pan cars and that is exactly the type of situation you want high speed steering.
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Old 2009.12.09, 09:45 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister_Y View Post
The additional caster works since it gives more high speed steering. We used to use caster adjustment alot on the 1/5 scale cars. Fact seems that most guys using the WTF and WTFV2 pieces are driving mod pan cars and that is exactly the type of situation you want high speed steering.
And also adds to the straight line stability since the wheels will be sort of self centering with added caster angle.
This is because the car actually sits lower when the wheels are straight, and higher when turning. The weight of the car will force it to center the wheels. Not very much noticeable on these small cars, but still the effect is there.
The effect increases with more caster, and also with increased weight.
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Old 2009.12.09, 12:28 PM   #38
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I'm currently running an MR-02 360GTC with 0 fronts. How do you think my car would change if I went to a WTF2 with -1 fronts?

I want a WTF2, so just convince me.

-Jer
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Old 2009.12.09, 12:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyC View Post
I'm currently running an MR-02 360GTC with 0 fronts. How do you think my car would change if I went to a WTF2 with -1 fronts?

I want a WTF2, so just convince me.

-Jer
I should give more information, and sorry I can't edit my post...

Setup:
1 degree knuckles on SS pins, usually with soft springs
0 Toe
0 Caster
94mm with soft carbon T-plate
regular DDS with no topshock
currently running Kyosho 20 rear slicks and PN 8 slick fronts(going to Kyo 30 fronts)

The car handles very well and has good steering, it has slight oversteer on high speed turn-in, but everywhere else the car is pretty neutral.
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Old 2009.12.09, 12:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyC View Post
I should give more information, and sorry I can't edit my post...

Setup:
1 degree knuckles on SS pins, usually with soft springs
0 Toe
0 Caster
94mm with soft carbon T-plate
regular DDS with no topshock
currently running Kyosho 20 rear slicks and PN 8 slick fronts(going to Kyo 30 fronts)

The car handles very well and has good steering, it has slight oversteer on high speed turn-in, but everywhere else the car is pretty neutral.
OK, I fail at the internet, and I apologize.

More info:
0 offset front
1 offset rear
Usually run an Atomic standard BB motor with orion 900 cells
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Old 2009.12.09, 02:21 PM   #41
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Do it! I really like mine although I haven't raced it yet.
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Old 2009.12.09, 06:56 PM   #42
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I have a WTF-V1, and here's the thing: This is a great part for Pan Car. Using +1 or even 0 offset wheels with Pan Car is great, since the WTF-V1 has a +2 offset built-in.

Now the WTF2: Again, great for Pan Car. For use with a car like the 360GTC, I just don't see it. It might work well, but will it actually make the difference it does on a car that uses +2F offset? That's something for discussion.

Don't get me wrong, I like the WTF and the WTF2. The only reason I don't own a WTF2 is because I love the MR03.

The WTF2 has good advancements - camber, caster, and is a bit more favorable for AutoScale use now with its 1.5 built-in offset instead of 2-offset.

There is no wrong answer I guess. If you like it, buy it. It is a good value now with 2 toe-bars included. But the WTF design will really shine when you use it on Pan Cars or on a normally wide front-offset car.

Hope this helps
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Old 2009.12.09, 07:29 PM   #43
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Hi Jeremy,

I would say (risking Christian's wrath), that for the Ferrari, you really don't need it. I believe the WTF's were developed for big and WIDE cars which have to run front wheels with very high offsets. This causes a lot of scrub, which kills responsiveness and turn in. The idea behind the WTF was to improve turn in and responsiveness for these very wide and stable cars to get them to be better all around performers.

A car like the Ferrari which is quite nimble to begin with will probably not benefit by changing the wheels only one mm. If you wanted, you could try just buying -1 offset wheels and running them on the Ferrari to simlate what you might get with the WTF, but the effect will be slightly skewed because the track will be narrower of course.

I would say it would be better on an LM, pan car, or some other car which comes with +3 fronts out of the box. The greater the offset of the wheels when you switch to the WTF, the greater the difference you'll see.

I'm sure Christian will step in, but I believe I have it materially correct... ;-)

ianc
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Old 2009.12.09, 07:44 PM   #44
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i ran the wtf2 on my f430 with neg1 atomic wheels. i liked it alot but even with neg1 wheels it was to wide and would catch the rails. it may have just been the atomic wheels as i know they are slightly wider than pn. i also noticed i could only run 1* camber are the wheels would rub the top of the tower. this was no big deal as it was 1.5* with the built in .5* camber, and thats what i normally run.
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Old 2009.12.09, 11:25 PM   #45
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I'm running a 07 30z with 96mm + WTF v2.0. I love how this has .5* camber and 4 degrees caster built in..I can feel more steering than the WTF 1.0. I built my car last Saturday...slapped on 96mm + wtf v2.0 and I got 4th place in 2wd stock....in short it really is nice, adds lots of front stability with enough entry for me and might drop your lap times by a respectable amount (did it for me at least)
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