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Old 2009.05.04, 06:18 PM   #1
jonnywachter
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lexan bodies and more cars.

I have been thinking about this topic for sometime now and I just wanted to hear everyones feedback.

First question is, why don't we use lexan bodies? I understand that they don't just snap on to the stock mini-z but you can easily make body mounts to do so. Lexan bodies are a lot lighter and can be painted from the inside and not needing as many coats of paint as you would use on the outside of a body. With the body being so light the cars center of gravity would be lowered significantly.

Second, why only Kyosho? Other companies have the power to put out their own car and greatly improve the design of the 1/28th racing chassis. I feel with more cars on the market the mini-z scene can grow significantly. The tracks are already awesome and super consistent, at least if its RCP. I honestly love these little cars and want to see them grow, and i feel the only way they can would be to introduce a competitive chassis.
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Old 2009.05.04, 07:12 PM   #2
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To address your first question (at least from my perspective), I don't use lexan bodies because they're ugly. I am an automotive enthusiast, and to a certain extent, part of the fun of driving for me is identifying with the car I'm driving. Just not possible to the same extent with lexan bodies. I, for one, don't like to paint cars. It's a messy job, a lot of work, and it will likely not be as tough as the gloss coat finish when you're done. Racing bodies usually get trashed anyway, so why put all the time and effort into giving it a custom paint job? And then there is the mounting clip business...

As for competing chassis, good question. Others have tried (xmods, iwaver, etc), but they just don't stack up to Mini-z's in terms of quality and performance. In a way, it's not a bad thing, since the same basic car puts everyone on a level playing field to begin with before any modding is done. It's bad in that Kyosho can control the market and pricing. Just look at the recent price hikes for Autoscale bodies...

Anyway, them's my thoughts and you bought them, so now you're stuck with them.

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Old 2009.05.04, 07:40 PM   #3
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I think that most Mini-Z racing is fundamentally closer to Tamiya's TCS racing rather than really hardcore TC or pan car racing; a lot of value is placed on prettiness. A lot of us got into Mini-Z's because the bodies were so phenomenal, and there will only be a select few who are willing to give that up just to go faster. IMO the racing wouldn't be made any more enjoyable by going to Lexan bodies; you don't give anything up by requiring everyone to use a hard plastic body. Racing is still competitive as ever since everyone's on pretty equal ground, and because the bodies take most of the impact damage, you tend to break fewer chassis parts.

Granted, Lexan bodies are cheaper... but they don't necessarily last any longer than hard plastic bodies at this scale, where they often end up cracking anyways because there's no space for the Lexan to flex.

Regarding chassis, the MA010 most certainly has room for improvement, but the MR02 is a very well-balanced platform to begin with, and with so many people developing parts for it, it continues to mature as a racing chassis 6 years after its release. There's a reason why most aftermarket 1/28 chassis have failed... it's because the MR02 is often still faster! (Although recent MRCG race results are showing otherwise... that's a story for another time ) AWD custom chassis have definitely shown promise (Pro-Z TCZ comes to mind) but building one up gets really costly really fast.

As for other large companies stepping up to compete with the Mini-Z, I haven't seen it happen yet and I don't expect to. Kyosho has the market cornered with the Autoscale gig, and anyone else trying to get into the game would only be able to compete with the chassis, which is NOT what gets you sales in this market -- it's Readysets with bodies, and Autoscales, that gets you sales.

Granted, with Autoscales going up to $50 I would love to see some large company step up and create some Mini-Z caliber 1/28 car that can compete both on the shelf and on the track. Serpent's already done their S240, so I don't see why they couldn't set their sights on the Mini-Z with their next micro RC.
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Old 2009.05.04, 07:40 PM   #4
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all good points but the selling point for kyosho has been the autoscale appearance. kyosho makes die cast models so the mini-z was a transition for them from diecast to rc's.

lexan has never taken off for this scale. as mentioned, the selling point has always been the die cast appearance. squat offered lexan bodies years and years ago and dropped them due to lack of sales. as much as people may like them for hard core racing, it just doesn't make up the majority market for this scale and the sales are just not there to make it profitable on a large scale.

lets face it. a vast majority of owners never race competitively.

why kyosho? in 10 years, they have consistently made the better product. again, this is a small market in whole, small enough to not support many manufacturers. it's survival of the fitest and kyosho has proven to be able to survive after 10 years.

want proof, where are iwavers found? how come aftermarket chassis's are not sold worldwide in every store? the core of this market has been and will remain the casual driver who appreciates the scale appearance combined with the tuneability of a hobby class rc chassis.

aftermarket chassis kits have done wonders in keeping the spark alive though.
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Old 2009.05.05, 02:08 AM   #5
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Everyone has great points that I hadn't even considered. Thats why I started this thread. I totally understand now about the auto scale bodies and I understand that the scale look is what people are going for. I guess im looking at it differently because of my racing background, I honestly like the look of the pan car and touring car bodies, even though they arent "scale" they have that racing look I have come to love. There is one thing I want to touch on tho, the pan car body is absalotly not scale to anything, so why not allow lexan bodies in alteast that class? Also if companies made lexan touring car bodies, would there be a class? I know I would definatly try to start one, and at that point, if the class took off, maybe people would see 1/28 racing as more of "racing" instead of autoscales. And if we get more of a racing feel that would introduce a market for a competetive chassis and so on....

So, of course kyosho has survived for 10 years in the mini-z scene, they invented it! I feel the reason Iwaver didnt work was because the were cheap and just copied kyosho (from my knowledge, I dont know exactly what they did), and x-mods were a cheap radioshack car that was never designed to "race" with mini-z's. I was getting more at the bigger companies that actually know how do design a car such as Losi, Associated, CRC, TM, Xray, Yokomo, and Tamiya. Just to name a few if these companies designed a car of the same scale it would be intersting to see what they would come up with.
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Old 2009.05.05, 05:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnywachter View Post
I was getting more at the bigger companies that actually know how do design a car such as Losi, Associated, CRC, TM, Xray, Yokomo, and Tamiya. Just to name a few if these companies designed a car of the same scale it would be intersting to see what they would come up with.
Probably something similar to this, lol...

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Old 2009.05.05, 05:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
Regarding chassis, the MA010 most certainly has room for improvement.
Besides the small balance issue, how do you mean?
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Old 2009.05.05, 07:50 AM   #8
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squat did make lexan touring car bodies. there was never a large enough market to support them. they have told us that they will make them again provided we can hit a min. qnty. never have been able to do that.

lexan bodies will be best suited for the modified classes where aftermarket chassis designs are better suited for them. i'm not saying they can't be used on mini-z's, it's just more rare than finding them on aftermarket chassis's.

this is not the first thread to ask why no lexans. it's always the same answer. the market is so small, few have taken up the cause to keep them going.

currently, reflex racing carries the only mass market lexan bodies (still very limited production and even smaller distribution). i bought the civic and it's awsome. i had to sell my aftermarket chassis so i let the body go as well.

others will have to touch on why not allow lexans with pan cars.
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Old 2009.05.05, 08:40 AM   #9
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I wish atomic and PN would make a car body similar to their pan bodies, it could be a non brand to avoid the licensing issue, but a body that worked well with 94-98mm, and is always available in white I hate kyosho's spotty supply issues with bodies, I always seem to need a new one when they are out of stock. Keeping it around $20 would be good too.
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Old 2009.05.05, 12:52 PM   #10
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With the limited production and distribution, to me I like a wide choice of styles. That comes to personal taste. Some are into the import cars, some want pan style cars, then there are those wanting 60's and 70's muscle cars. I guess it is hard to make something that will sell enough to clear the costs of making the bucks and materials used.

Back in the early mini z days there was a number of us looking at 1/24 scale slot car bodies. I bought a few to try on my MR01, it was not that good as those are made very thin. It was like running without a body at all, not a good idea anyway. The ones I had are the competition grade bodies pulled from .010 sheet stock, an .030 is a better choice as an RC car body. Most slot cars are nothing more than a plate with a motor, with a radio controlled car you have batteries and radio stuff on board so the extra protection is needed.

Most of the purpose made bodies I seen offered so far are mostly for the 98mm wheelbase cars.
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Old 2009.05.05, 02:13 PM   #11
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So I was doing a little ebay browsing and I found this body.

I was in disbelief at first, I couldn't believe that I had literally just talked about getting a lexan touring car body and there it is (and its a Mazda 6)! So these must be new or im sure someone would have mentioned them already, I want to get one but the price is a little steep. Has anyone else seen these? I tried to do a little research on the company that makes them but I cant find anything.
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Old 2009.05.05, 02:58 PM   #12
Davey G
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Hi Johnny, U have seen the lexan bods on Reflexracing.net havent you??

Use the search button and type "LimmitED"
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Old 2009.05.05, 06:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Hi Johnny, U have seen the lexan bods on Reflexracing.net havent you??

Use the search button and type "LimmitED"
i mentioned this earlier as well. if you want touring car bodies, he already makes a couple and they are very affordable.
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Old 2009.05.05, 09:15 PM   #14
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i have tested a few lexan bodies as well as foamies with great results
(and @ Matsushimas you are welcome to run any body you want in modified...lexan or plastic)....but not any faster than what we currently run...it would need added weight to get it to feel like it was planted......
the biggest reason that i do not run lexan is for the protection..... on of the first tests i did with a lexan pancar body....i hit a bumper in the chicane and bent a aluminum knuckle.....
imo, that is why racing larger scales do not attract me......imagine how pissed u would if that was your brand new dub A arm
i have seen the limited lexan bodies in person when we went to cargel in sweden.....it is a bit stronger in the frontal areas than the others that i have tested.....but ....if i get T-boned ....NO THANKS.....at least plastic will absorb most of the impact....
as far as other chassis go...... there are quite a few out there....and to a degree they all work well in the right hands....i wish i knew what serpent was thinking when they made a 1/24th scale pancar.....if it was 1/28th...it possibly could have been a kyosho killer....
bottom line is.....1/28th scale is a perfect scale to race in....bring on the chassis....
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Old 2009.05.05, 10:39 PM   #15
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The Serpent pan car looks to be a badge-engineered REWO car, hence the 1/24 scale (the original REWO was 1/24 for the European market, I guess). Wish Serpent would've released a 1/28 version for the US market, but oh well...

Good point about getting T-boned. Whereas the hard plastic bodies do a good job of protecting the rear wheels, Lexan bodies just flex and let the rear axle/knuckles take the hit... so with Lexan bodies you REALLY need nerf wings or protection of some sort.



Regarding my comment on the MA010, I think that something can be done to lower the CG to make it a more proper touring-car style chassis. Just a shame that it's so not cost-effective to do, otherwise I would certainly be working on an AWD chassis...
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