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Old 2004.12.21, 03:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michvin
How about no classes?
I'll explain what i mean:
You do the qualifying and finals. Thats all. I suspect that at least at the start of the series the attendance would be quite low. So we might end with 3 cars in each class. And to handle multi-class event takes a lot of time, couple of days, actually.
Most of our events would be one-day. Later, if it gets going and growing, classes can be introduced.
Just a thought...
i'm guessing you never attended a k. cup race. the entire thing is done in one day and the turn out is alwasy very good
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Old 2004.12.21, 03:49 PM   #17
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It's very simple, if "stock" rules are used such as those used in the Mini-Z-Cup, those who "really" want to race in a stock class will use an R/C that conforms to the rules even if that includes "returning" a car to stock form. If not, they won't race in that particular class.

If FET restrictions are not needed to "make" a level playing field, why do I keep reading posts about how great the Iwaver "pro" versions are because their boards will supposedly handle a 5 amp motor and how great the transmitter is as well? In my opinion, if an R/C manufacturer such as Iwaver actually makes two different subclasses of R/Cs, then they must be a difference and there should be a distinction made within classes. If that mandates separating the non-pro versions and the pro-versions, so be it. The alternative, is to make it "wide open" which wouldn't bother me either.

In my opinion, if there is a wide open "outlaw" class then the end result may be that neither an Xmod, Iwaver, or Kyosho Mini-Z will win the race or at the very least a highly modified variant may win even if that car has micro-electronics or not.
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Old 2004.12.21, 03:53 PM   #18
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for the benifit of everyone, i think limiting it to 3 class distinctions should be the goal. one being stock, another being outlaw. the middle, well, that's the sticky part

i don't think 3 classes (2 for most) for each chassis type would be a difficult thing to pull off, k. did it for 3 years. if we add many more chassis types, that's when it breaks into a 2nd day for the event.
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Old 2004.12.21, 04:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
for the benifit of everyone, i think limiting it to 3 class distinctions should be the goal. one being stock, another being outlaw. the middle, well, that's the sticky part

i don't think 3 classes (2 for most) for each chassis type would be a difficult thing to pull off, k. did it for 3 years. if we add many more chassis types, that's when it breaks into a 2nd day for the event.
Middle class should be no fets but any other hop ups...sort of a mod stock class.

What about F1?

And can we use alloys? We've spent all this $$$ for a visual upgrade...see no performance benefit aside from durability.

Also, at the very least there should be no tire limits for softness.
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Old 2004.12.21, 04:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mini-z
RE Tires, I was talking about for Box Stock only - other classes should be unlimited.
What is box stock for tires? I have different cars that have come with different tires
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Old 2004.12.21, 04:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNB
It's very simple, if "stock" rules are used such as those used in the Mini-Z-Cup, those who "really" want to race in a stock class will use an R/C that conforms to the rules even if that includes "returning" a car to stock form. If not, they won't race in that particular class.

If FET restrictions are not needed to "make" a level playing field, why do I keep reading posts about how great the Iwaver "pro" versions are because their boards will supposedly handle a 5 amp motor and how great the transmitter is as well? In my opinion, if an R/C manufacturer such as Iwaver actually makes two different subclasses of R/Cs, then they must be a difference and there should be a distinction made within classes. If that mandates separating the non-pro versions and the pro-versions, so be it. The alternative, is to make it "wide open" which wouldn't bother me either.

In my opinion, if there is a wide open "outlaw" class then the end result may be that neither an Xmod, Iwaver, or Kyosho Mini-Z will win the race or at the very least a highly modified variant may win even if that car has micro-electronics or not.
Lots of R/C companies make a RTR version and a Kit version with the kit version being a much better car. Yet, they all compete together...

sorry for teh rapid posts...I wanted to respond but I couldnt edit...

This is a tough issue...and there is no "right" way...and the ebst way now will probably be altered by the next event.

We need to decide if we want to use rules similar to 1:10 or those in K cup.

Aside from the performance arguments, I see a problem with the K Cup rules as Kyosho ahs abandoned us by takign away the K Cup...and to support a one name class puts all our eggs in one basket...we need to have a mroe open class.

If a class is more open, the hope is that other RC companies see a market for the micro racing and we have more and better options for cars and kits...we will also have more options for sponsors and event planners.

The more narrow the scope the more limiting it becomes...this argument is going on with 1:10 touring cars...and it is tough to find a safe middle ground but with bone stock K cars it is saying to other manufactures we dont want an alternative vehicle. Why not attract X-Ray, Losi, Associated, HPI....and a host of others?

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Old 2004.12.21, 04:45 PM   #22
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This mini cup was a great idea in the beginning... it has escallated and been blown way up... i've completely lost interest. Maybe people like me are the people that you might still want to be thinking about.
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Old 2004.12.21, 04:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruknd@aol.com
Lots of R/C companies make a RTR version and a Kit version with the kit version being a much better car. Yet, they all compete together...
to be blunt, those are other scales. the only kit versions that are similar to what your describing are the anniv. monster and overland. what works in larger scales doesn't mean it will or should work for smaller scales
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Old 2004.12.21, 04:55 PM   #24
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runkd,
I agree most kits are better than RTRs since they usually already include option parts and the builder usually installs better electronics as well. Some factory drivers also get "non-released" parts and engines prior to the public. Is that the type of race this will be?

Do you know of any Xmod, Iwaver or Kyosho Mini-Z kits released by the actual manufactuering company? I don't. I also believe that some of the modified R/Cs will probably blow away the regular Zs, Iwavers and Xmods in the proper driver's hands even if they use a 5 amp board. The race than may become not a test of skill on an equal playing field, but a test of who can get their paws on the best equipment and show up to race. Quite frankly, I really don't care but afterwards I can imagine how many people are going to complain because some driver beat them with a "better car" after they "spent" all this extra money.

Even alloy on an F1 can be a big advantage if it comes down to a knuckle.
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Old 2004.12.21, 04:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty-Se7en
This mini cup was a great idea in the beginning... it has escallated and been blown way up... i've completely lost interest. Maybe people like me are the people that you might still want to be thinking about.
This is a thread for a discussion of the rules and options...I see it as sort a brain (or lack of brain) storming thread...the cup is still a great idea and if you have ideas on rules then let everyone know.

Hey, I like getting my ass kicked in a race. And when I do I'll always look at how. Often it is because I jsut couldnt get the back stretch quite right and not hop ups. As for the pro issue I totally agree but they should run in the "anything goes pro class".

maybe we need to just do a poll to see what classes people will enter into? That will give us the best idea as to what classes are most popular.

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Old 2004.12.21, 04:57 PM   #26
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27 is right, this whole point is to keep it simple. you obviously won't make everyone happy but if you hit the majority as the k. cup did (excluding manuf. rules), i think it will be successful
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Old 2004.12.21, 05:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruknd@aol.com
This is a thread for a discussion of the rules and options...I see it as sort a brain (or lack of brain) storming thread...the cup is still a great idea and if you have ideas on rules then let everyone know.

Hey, I like getting my ass kicked in a race. And when I do I'll always look at how. Often it is because I jsut couldnt get the back stretch quite right and not hop ups. As for the pro issue I totally agree but they should run in the "anything goes pro class".

maybe we need to just do a poll to see what classes people will enter into? That will give us the best idea as to what classes are most popular.
not sure if that was a veiled insult or not but i understand what your saying
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Old 2004.12.21, 05:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty-Se7en
This mini cup was a great idea in the beginning... it has escallated and been blown way up... i've completely lost interest. Maybe people like me are the people that you might still want to be thinking about.
Don't lose interest... we are trying to make everything fair for everyone, and also grow the hobby as well! GIVE US YOUR INPUT.. don't throw your hands up and walk away!

The Mini-Cup is a fantastic idea, and I would hate to see someone not run because they feel intimidated or not have as much "bling-bling" on their cars as the next person. Just this past weekend, I won my first race! Now you have to understand, I am excited, but I also had to beat out a 7-year-old to win it!! LOL That is what makes this hobby fun, anyone can participate, anyone can have fun, and anyone can win!!

Eldon / THRC
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Old 2004.12.21, 05:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELMO4635
Don't lose interest... we are trying to make everything fair for everyone, and also grow the hobby as well! GIVE US YOUR INPUT.. don't throw your hands up and walk away!

The Mini-Cup is a fantastic idea, and I would hate to see someone not run because they feel intimidated or not have as much "bling-bling" on their cars as the next person. Just this past weekend, I won my first race! Now you have to understand, I am excited, but I also had to beat out a 7-year-old to win it!! LOL That is what makes this hobby fun, anyone can participate, anyone can have fun, and anyone can win!!

Eldon / THRC
yeah, what he said
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Old 2004.12.21, 05:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELMO4635
Don't lose interest... we are trying to make everything fair for everyone, and also grow the hobby as well!
It appears that is what Kyosho was attempting to do with the Mini-Z-Cup and by having so many "stock" rules, it allowed people to compete without having to spend the extra money on option parts. Some of the other rules also cut down on the "edge" that some people may have on option parts (as well as allowing others to compete with Kyosho option products) and matched batteries.
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