2014.10.12, 10:10 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 207
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STOCK CLASS talk and race reports.
So what's happening in YOUR stock class these day's ?
I hope you're having fun because stock class racing truly is the most cost effective, least stressful way to enjoy mini-z racing for a long,long time. If you haven't noticed, stock class or ,at the very least,less performance oriented classes are booming. If you're not already involved....get involved.
So take some time to use this thread and post what's going on with "stock class" racing at your club or in your area.
I copied this information on the Kyosho rules from another post by Arch2b. Hope they help. If you use a different set of rules, list them for us.
Here are the Kyosho Stock Rules, (Ver. 2.2) Updated on 03-06-2014
Open to any Kyosho Mini-Z Racer and AWD Chassis, Iwaver/Fire-Lap Racer and AWD Chassis. Chassis can be any configuration including LM and wheelbases from 86mm to 106mm.
• Chassis - No modification (shaving or drilling unless absolutely required for proper part operation)
• Motor - Kyosho Racer and AWD Stock motor only.
• PCB - No modification allowed except for updating to current PCB board. No Gyro permitted, No brushless, permitted, no increase in quantity of FET's permitted. This accommodates periodic changes or upgrades in PCB design with regard to frequency, etc.
• Bodies - Must be Kyosho Kit or Autoscale body, or full painted and assembled white (unpainted) body. Modification (shaving or drilling for weight savings and aerodynamic gain, adding wings etc) not allowed. (Exceptions; hole may be drilled in rear deck lid of Ferrari F355 to allow for damper clearance as example, front splitter or low air foils that protrude to sharp points may be rounded at corners/edges.) custom painted bodies must be fully painted and ALL accessories excluding optional kit parts (rally light on Toyota Celica for example). completed body must be within 2 grams of original Autoscale weight (average weight of Autoscale rear spoiler). Bodies found to have greater deviation will not be permitted.
• Wheels - Any Manufacturer plastic wheels only. Wheels/tires must be of appropriate width and offset for respective Autoscale and fit inside the body.
• Tires - Any Manufacturer brand rubber tire (No grooving, cutting or silicone based tires allowed)
• Batteries - Four AAA batteries. Alkaline, Ni-MH or Ni-Cd batteries may be used. No other type of battery may be used. For example: Lithium Polymer may not be used, Ni-Zn may not be used.
• Ball Bearings - Any manufacturer non ceramic ball bearings are permitted.
• Front Suspension - Manufacturer stock suspension and parts permitted ONLY.
• Rear Suspension - Manufacturer stock suspension permitted ONLY and assembly appropriate for chassis type (example, LM stock configuration includes rear damper. Other kits include Kyosho Rear Shock Set #MZ206)
• H/T Plate - Any Manufacturer H/T plate permitted, must be appropriate to stock wheelbase for chassis configuration and Autoscale selection.
• Wheel Nuts - Any Manufacturer wheel nuts permitted.
Modifications to the rules
• Oils, lubes, greases, tire tape will be allowed in our series.
• Allowable ESC modifications are limited to the replacement in kind (same as stock) of fets and other board components.
• Autoscale modifications are limited to the minimum clearancing needed for operation of permitted equipment. Shaving bumpers, skirts, windows, etc. will not be allowed. Please choose your autoscale accordingly as there will be no exceptions made thus no excuses.
• R246 autoscales that are sold in chassis sets are acceptable. The R390GT1 is an example of this R246 autoscale sold as a chassis set with wheels. Those that are not sold in this manner are not acceptable. To clarify this further, other Autoscales not sold as chassis sets or readyset are not acceptable.
• Wiring must remain stock except you may replace motor wires with like wire. IE; replace stock motor leads with Turnigy 24awg wires. You may replace the stock antenna wire with like wire.
• AWD chassis my use the aluminum motor spacers to assist in dissipating heat.
Last edited by Zrc; 2014.10.12 at 10:19 PM.
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2014.10.13, 10:37 AM
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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these are the stock class rules we use for our club and have worked well. there are always exceptions to the rules and some unique circumstances to deal with but for the most part these rules are very easy to implement and follow to provide a cost effective, entry level racing class.
if you don't have a stock class, or something that resembles it, in a retail environment, i argue you really should. the long term issue with clubs is member turnover and if you don't appeal to entry level groups to draw new membership in, your on a constant watch for turnover that doesn't get replenished. people will drop out of stock, just as they do out of more advanced classes but i can't stress the benefits enough of having a class that allows someone to buy an RTR or ARR and jump into a class that they won't be at an immediate disadvantage regarding equipment (ignoring the Sports Series issue).
i have to admit that in our group, we consistently hit more laps with stock class than HFAY or Mod. it doesn't seem like it at the time but consistency wins 9/10 times and stock class is the proving ground for consistency as you need to carry every bit of speed and power you can given the limitations of stock motors. nearly every single stock race is a close battle of skill, more so than other classes which has made them very enjoyable.
some of the issues we have come across are (and responses as they apply to our club):
just because you can buy a JSCC or anniversary kit with all the bells and whistles doesn't mean its a stock kit, it's not. it even says so on the box, 'included options.... '
yes, some kits out of the box are less than perfect and require tweaking and or replacement (tweaked chassis). this is not a valid argument for adding additional exemptions to the rules for additional options to be permitted as these instances are not pervasive (except F1 chassis tweak, if anyone still runs F1). we do permit replacement of the 4th servo gear as we have seen many of these stock gears fail.
not everyone is going to be able to put down a stock car and do 100 laps in 10 minutes. it's also not a valid argument for adding additional exemptions to the rules for additional options to be permitted. putting in the wheel time is far more valuable a lesson than buying a part to fix a problem that can be resolved with increased skill. this is the focus of our stock class. if a stock part is defective, it needs to be replaced. if it can be tweaked, do so and don't hesitate to ask for assistance or advice. the mini-z community is unparalleled in that regard.
stock motors have shown to work well for us, even with 10 minute mains. yes, some motors get hot but overall it's not been an issue. you get the same variation in output that you find in 70T motors as well. until there is a stock equivalent for brushless, this works very well for us and will continue to permit stock motors only. i can't stress enough to the manufacturers the need for a stock class brushless motor. we don't need another motor that permits unusable speed for indoor tracks however we are in dire need of a good motor that runs at stock speed and power. it really is an enormous barrier to adopting brushless in anything other than Mod class and if that is all it's good for, it doesn't bode well for brushless dispite kyosho limiting our options for anything else.
that's it for my sermon... what you will find with certainty is that 'stock' means different thing to many people. the only gold standard for stock class at the moment is kyosho cup rules and they are written to serve their own interest however they have been ongoing since 2003 or earlier. don't get hung up on what others are doing but establish something that works for your given club/market. our local competing club has different stock class rules than our club but it works for them and in the end, it's what works for your club and your goals that is important
stock class is great.
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2014.10.13, 11:47 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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Most inclusive and about as simple as I could make it...
Racer (Closed Ratio):
6 or 7 tooth Pinion gear and Stock Differential only! (allowable to use locking collar on left side)
Kyosho chassis (MR01, MR015, MR02, MR03)
Iwaver chassis (01, 02M, 04M)
2WD only
Any mass produced, injection molded body for 1/28th scale racing.
No lexan bodies
90-102mm wheelbase
No open wheels
Any electronics
PN 70turn bag stock motors or box stock, no mods, break-ins and comm drops only.
(4) NiMH AAA cells only
Racer (Open Ratio)
Any gearing
Kyosho chassis (MR01, MR015, MR02, MR03, MA010, MA015, MA020,)
Iwaver chassis (01, 02M, 04M)
Xmod chassis (Gen 1, Gen 2)
2WD or AWD
Any mass produced, injection molded body for 1/28th scale racing.
No lexan bodies
90-102mm wheelbase
No open wheels
Any electronics
PN 70turn bag stock motors or box stock, no mods, break-ins and comm drops only.
(4) NiMH AAA cells only
Closed Ratio makes it a very level playing field, show up with a near box stock Sports model and you still have a real good chance!
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2014.10.13, 12:00 PM
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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i know this is relatively new for you guys but how has it gone so far? our stock class has shown to be very good for our club/shop, just had to push through to make that happen. i will say, we worked at it for at least 2 years before we found our groove with stock class so to speak.
i really look forward to running your classes on the 26th?
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2014.10.13, 01:55 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: West Chester PA
Posts: 127
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The 7tooth class serves the purpose of slowing the cars down, allowing newer drivers time to react and enjoy racing their cars.
I don't think it levels the play field, the top three drivers at Railyard are still pulling many, many laps on the field. There is no way a box stock MR03S stands a chance against a prepped race ready 7tooth class car, which is basically a gear ratio limited, fully prepped Hfay Mr03/Mr02 car.
I do think it's fun, especially racing some fun autoscales bodies that normally don't make good race bodies, but are ok at the slower speeds in the 7tooth class.
I agree with Ray, in order to build up a class of new racers, you need a class which allows someone to be competitive with a nearly box stock car.
I have been saying this for a while, we need to be focusing on the MR03s, hopefully the new transmitter coming out soon will eliminate the last roadblock in allowing the Mr03s class to grow, or in most cases, start to grow.
Just my $.02
Al
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2014.10.13, 02:06 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: West Chester PA
Posts: 127
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See how this car does in the the 7tooth car.
Who said Nascar race cars only turn left.
Last edited by abasualdo; 2014.10.13 at 02:17 PM.
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2014.10.13, 02:28 PM
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#7
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Curmudgeon & Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 2,549
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One of the keys to getting some solid growth is in the, for the sake of the argument, "box stock" classes. A beginner has an easier time of rationalizing being beaten by somebody that is driving essentially the same equipment. What starts to drive the stake through the heart is the onslaught of what I like to refer to as "Kool-Aid" drinkers that tell the rookies that they "must have" the left handed doodad for a nanny goat's rump(in orange or whatever color) in order to compete to win. Once that starts it isn't long before realization of how much is being spent and still not the desired results are being achieved. To me it is absolutely amazing how many competitors think that more motor will equate to better results when the fact is that the majority of them couldn't drive a nail in the dirt with the gear they have let alone making it faster(read crash more often at higher speed).
Is there a place for the MRCG, P-28, AMZ, MRX ad nauseum super car, VE, Lipo, LiFe, Li-ion, foam tired, glued to the track, pocket rockets? Absolutely!! Should they be allowed in the same room with the rookies that are still dumb struck with the blinding speed of a car directly from the box on ASC tires and alkaline batteries? To this I say no. It's like handing your 10 year old a copy of "Hustler" and expecting him to not look at the pictures and at least casually rub his fingers across the "scratch and sniff". You will likely ruin him or just screw him up for a while. It is hard enough to get somebody to take the plunge and stick with it long enough to figure out how to adjust the wheelbase on what he has let alone expose them to the flat out insanity that is currently permeating the scale with stuff that less than 5% of our so called hero's can drive. Yet. There we stand with a box full of ballistic bling, telling someone that doesn't even know what scale it is the "he" has to have it to compete.
Still we stand and wonder. Where did everybody go?
Keep it simple. Watch it grow.
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2014.10.13, 03:18 PM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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easy, there tiger the question asked,
Quote:
So what's happening in YOUR stock class these day's ?
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for the sake of keeping this thread alive lets focus on responses to that particular question
how is 'stock' class fairing in NC?
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2014.10.13, 03:39 PM
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#9
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Curmudgeon & Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 2,549
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T-plates bearings and tires. Other than that if it didn't come in the box it doesn't go on the car. We are having a ball with it.
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2014.10.13, 04:05 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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Bling doesn't buy wins, I have personally witnessed some drivers do amazing things with box-stock cars... Gasman put us all in our places years ago with a box-stock Enzo in HFAY. Lap after lap that fateful day, he was untouchable, plastic bushings and all. He did swap tires but that was it... dropped it on the track and he was gone! Then again, he was embarrassing us all with his 01s when we were deep into our 02s.
I'm not saying someone is going to clean up with a box stock but if they can drive, they are gonna end up at the top of the pile eventually.
The Closed Ratio IMO has been some of our best racing in a while, tightest groups and almost everytime we have raced, nobody has pulled off the track.
The tuning is much simpler and there's less stress.
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2014.10.13, 04:19 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 207
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Mleemor60 couldn't describe the situation much better. We need to promote stock class racing MUCH,MUCH stronger than any other type of racing.
Racing for racers is fine but we simply can't forget about all those POTENTIAL racers. They out number us by LOTS.
I'd love to see an effort by every club and track to start a stock class or better promote an existing stock class. I imagine the comment we'll hear most is" my racers don't want to race or invest in slower, stock level cars". My answer is "That's perfect !!....you want stock class racing to draw in NEW racers."
I'm no genius but I do believe this information age has made it absolutely essential to go out and get customers. Yep, I said it....We actually have to do some work to get customers or new racers.
So here's the question of the day: When was the last time you, your club or your business did any type of outside promotion ?? (example: a static display at a mall or at a car show, a race day at the local community center, etc,etc.)
Stock class racing could be the most overlooked saving grace for rc car racing. Think about it... you're at a car show and you take a car out of a box, slap some batteries in and show somebody they can race it. That's value selling folks !! Stock class racing should be the first ,best impression people get.
Last edited by Zrc; 2014.10.13 at 04:24 PM.
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2014.10.13, 04:27 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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We got our best numbers when I showed up at the track with a tacklebox, a MAHA charger and one or two cars... I have overheard some watching us running our races and tuning our cars utter the words "oh no, more money to spend". It can be daunting to newbies to see guys with gobs of gear at the track, to them it just looks like another mountain to climb.
Simplicity was always our best recruitment tool.
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2014.10.13, 04:29 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: West Chester PA
Posts: 127
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Sorry Ed, don't agree, damper plates do win races.
Most of my cars don't have any more parts than they need in order to win/place well in a race.
The finishing order and spacing between racers is still roughly the same.
7tooth class is no where close to box stock, just a hopped up car with a shorter fixed gear ratio.
In my opinion, as close to box stock as possible is the only way to grow the ranks of new racers.
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2014.10.13, 04:33 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Reading Pa.
Posts: 4,124
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Is this an argument again?
If I get Roland or Grabowski down here with a box stock MR03 Sport, do you really think my dampers would help me?
Never wanted to complicate things hence why the rules only hold to the gears and the motors. All the alloy in the world will usually only buy you a bit of consistency and durability.
You weren't there years ago when my nephew was dominating with a near box-stock, third-hand 02 Corvette with a floppy rear lexan plate, no suspension whatsoever and he was destroying all of us.
Last edited by imxlr8ed; 2014.10.13 at 04:37 PM.
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2014.10.13, 04:40 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 207
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Sorry if my last post added to the sermon Arch. I blame it all on mleemor60. He's an instigator !!
Keep on talking it up folks. We'll all find out that we really do like stock racing and maybe we'll come up with some new promotional ideas.
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