Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2015.05.14, 09:40 PM   #1
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Nonlinear acceleration with 12000kV brushless motor(Issue Solved)

Hi,
I own MA-020VE miniZ. Recently just upgrade the motor from ECO motor 5600KV to 12000KV motor.
With same ICS setup, with new motor, my car can't accelerate linear. I need to throttle a bit before the car move. Which is first mm of throttle, the car is no response. Please advise is it there is ics setting that I need to change?

Last edited by rojak; 2015.05.18 at 08:55 PM. Reason: issue solve
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 12:55 AM   #2
LED
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 520
You can try shifting your centre point and then adjust your end point. The problem then could be that it will be more difficult to get into reverse.
LED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 01:47 AM   #3
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by LED View Post
You can try shifting your centre point and then adjust your end point. The problem then could be that it will be more difficult to get into reverse.
Tried that,but still same, after few mm of throttle, then my car move.
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 02:43 AM   #4
TheSteve
VE7FM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 629
The electronic speed control may be having a tough time starting a motor with such a high kV.
TheSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 02:58 AM   #5
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSteve View Post
The electronic speed control may be having a tough time starting a motor with such a high kV.
Is it anything that I can improve it?Like setting in ics?
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 07:24 AM   #6
Jshwaa
Registered User
 
Jshwaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 215
With brushless control 'without sensor feedback', starting torque is something that needs to be dialed in, as the esc has no reference for how much movement results from the current it administers to the motor windings, so it is literally driving your motor blind.

Do you hear the switching of the ESC occurring within that first 'mm' or so of trigger pull?

If so, then the phenomenon you are experiencing is friction in the drive-train. Until everything gets smoothed out, it will take a minimum amount of throttle to break the friction trying to hold everything still. See if that phenomenon occurs with the motor itself, outside of the car. If not, then 'friction' is the gremlin here.
__________________
Electrical Engineer
Mini-Z/RC Enthusiast
Jshwaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 08:07 PM   #7
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jshwaa View Post
With brushless control 'without sensor feedback', starting torque is something that needs to be dialed in, as the esc has no reference for how much movement results from the current it administers to the motor windings, so it is literally driving your motor blind.

Do you hear the switching of the ESC occurring within that first 'mm' or so of trigger pull?

If so, then the phenomenon you are experiencing is friction in the drive-train. Until everything gets smoothed out, it will take a minimum amount of throttle to break the friction trying to hold everything still. See if that phenomenon occurs with the motor itself, outside of the car. If not, then 'friction' is the gremlin here.
First mm not hear any switching sound.
Last night my tx gone haywire. My car cannot be control.After being reset,re-pairing with my car,then okay.
My car response is better after reset the remote.
One more thing, this 12000KV motor is sensitive with battery drop, I change with fresh charge battery, the acceleration is smooth,compare with used battery,my car is jerking during acceleration.
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 08:23 PM   #8
cowboysir
epic procrastinator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
I have experienced a similar jerky acceleration with a PN motor (not as high a KV). With certain cells i will get great racing for 12-15 min but on other cells I get a bad "cogging" effect while trying to accelerate.

This seems to happen when i use all available throttle fwd on my endpoints adjustment.

I have corrected this for the most part by taking 10% off my total th-fwd endpoint.

It has been suggested to me that my wiring from esc to motor might be flawed slightly on one of the three wires...i have yet to check but you may find success with this in your case.

As for finger travelling a bit before getting any actual motor movement you might try creating a higher throttle curve on your TX...by ramping up the initial takeoff point you may have some success getting a quicker start from the motor. I have set 2 different brushed motors like this to great effect.
__________________
I wonder what rocket scientists say to their coworkers when one of them doesn't get it?

my custom body album...
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/album.php?albumid=192
cowboysir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 08:26 PM   #9
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir View Post
I have experienced a similar jerky acceleration with a PN motor (not as high a KV). With certain cells i will get great racing for 12-15 min but on other cells I get a bad "cogging" effect while trying to accelerate.

This seems to happen when i use all available throttle fwd on my endpoints adjustment.

I have corrected this for the most part by taking 10% off my total th-fwd endpoint.

It has been suggested to me that my wiring from esc to motor might be flawed slightly on one of the three wires...i have yet to check but you may find success with this in your case.

As for finger travelling a bit before getting any actual motor movement you might try creating a higher throttle curve on your TX...by ramping up the initial takeoff point you may have some success getting a quicker start from the motor. I have set 2 different brushed motors like this to great effect.
Hi,
What do you mean "creating a higher throttle curve"?Is it using ics?
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 08:57 PM   #10
cowboysir
epic procrastinator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
Im unsure if it can be done with ICS. I assumed you have a TX with programmable features....

If you do have a high function TX you might be able to find a section in your throttle area that can adjust the throttle ramp/map
__________________
I wonder what rocket scientists say to their coworkers when one of them doesn't get it?

my custom body album...
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/album.php?albumid=192
cowboysir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.15, 08:58 PM   #11
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir View Post
Im unsure if it can be done with ICS. I assumed you have a TX with programmable features....

If you do have a high function TX you might be able to find a section in your throttle area that can adjust the throttle ramp/map
I am using KT18,i notice there is 2 pin at the back label "sw" you think it can be done?
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.16, 11:47 AM   #12
dameetz
Registered User
 
dameetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 184
Try NARROW throttle neutral width - i cant remember what its call on the ICS programme but its the one with 3 options, Narrow - Normal - Wide. The default is set to Normal if I m not mistaken.
dameetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.16, 05:55 PM   #13
DMALMAD
Registered User
 
DMALMAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir View Post
Im unsure if it can be done with ICS. I assumed you have a TX with programmable features....

If you do have a high function TX you might be able to find a section in your throttle area that can adjust the throttle ramp/map
In the ics you can change the throttle frequency to get a simmilar effect as throttle curve on the radio. The higher the throttle frequency the smoother the car will be but will have less initial punch. The lower the frequency it will be less smooth but will accelerate much quicker initialy. Also the higher the frequency the hotter the esc will get and the more strain will be put on the batteries.
DMALMAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.18, 08:54 PM   #14
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMALMAD View Post
In the ics you can change the throttle frequency to get a simmilar effect as throttle curve on the radio. The higher the throttle frequency the smoother the car will be but will have less initial punch. The lower the frequency it will be less smooth but will accelerate much quicker initialy. Also the higher the frequency the hotter the esc will get and the more strain will be put on the batteries.
I see,but that setting is not available in ve ics.
Only got punch level and motor constant option.
By the way,issue has been solved.
After my tx gone haywire,i reset it back,re pair it with my car. No issue after that.
__________________
MR01->MA-020VE->MR02-VE>MB010
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
12000kv, ma-020ve

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Breaking in a stock motor. mleemor60 Motor Tech 4 2015.01.27 12:55 PM
MR03 brushless !!!!!!!!!!!!! pepeuch Mini-Z Racer MR-03, MR-03 VE, Sports Series, EVO 57 2012.10.16 10:08 PM
Motor causing glitching on ASF wight Mini-Z AWD MA-010, MA-015 5 2010.08.11 01:41 PM
Stock Class Motor AtlRC Atlanta Mini Scale Racing 3 2007.06.13 08:54 PM
Motor Capacitor/Wires/Twitching Draconious Parts and Hop-ups 13 2003.01.05 03:09 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts