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Old 2009.01.12, 09:25 AM   #61
eztuner12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieluki View Post
Hi , I admire your work with the MRCG...
In my modest opinion I feel the need of a better damping system in the front of our AWD , do you think a new front configuration would be so hard to develop ..?
I see the 1:10 RC chassis and I dream my AWD could have a front SAS like system... Ok its only a wish but why not? what is the problem with that..?
I think it would improve a lot the function and the settings.


Maybe this could inspire you a bit... this is a man who handcrafted its own 1:24 awd design...
http://xemet.altervista.org/

Take a look at this smart front design..:




WOW!!!
Cheers
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Old 2009.01.12, 10:23 AM   #62
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Thats a sweet looking set up, but transfering it to 1/28th, then designing and manufacturing all the custom machined parts that go along with it would make it expensive to prototype. Remember, at a smaller scale, tolerances are tighter, and parts are far more complicated to machine.
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Old 2009.01.12, 03:02 PM   #63
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Hi Dan, I'm very familiar with the suspension of the M24, in fact I was trying to use it as a base a long time ago. But it takes a LOT of custom-machined parts to pull it off, which means really, really expensive. So I didn't even consider it when designing this car.

If I get a hold of an injection molding machine sometime later in life, then this project perhaps would work because I can machine the molds pretty easily and could probably find a suitable plastic fairly easily too. Till then though the price of so much stuff is .
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Old 2009.01.12, 11:48 PM   #64
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well, i hope you can get a hold of that injection molding machine soon.
can derlin be injection molded?
if this design just used molded plastic parts, the chassis would still be the most handling enhancing thing for the MA10

maybe you could try talking some other people like 3racing or something

if this chassis has to be scrapped, i hope that you somehow get the chance to make it later on.
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Old 2009.01.14, 01:02 AM   #65
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Hmmm....not radical enough?

I guess this really is a subjective call, but observing from 2 previous released versions of custom AWD that I know, going to the extreme of stand-alone chassis(which hardly compatible with original AWD parts) leads no where. Those products hardly gain popularity, might be something to do with publicity, but mostly probably due to high price and doubtful spare parts availability.



************************************


I think by introducing:

1) lower CG and better weight management
2) Slide-in motor, allow possibility of brushless
3) 3rd party electronics possible
4) Potential better performing parts, but compatible with original parts

Those are already pretty radical, and the fact that it works with original parts is actually a way to guarantee spare parts availability. It will appeal to both AWD junkies and ordinary AWD customers, since the upkeep can be low and the parts used can be switched between original and new MRCG chassis.


The only one improvement I could think of...just off top my head is the idea of HPI E10 where a 'drift' and 'touring' car weight distribution could be reversed easily and moving the last fourth battery to the motor side to achieve even lower CG.


************************************


I am sure when Kyosho first release AWD, extensive research and test driving has been done to ensure the product is competitive and has appeal to customers. Think about it, it is already a pretty amazing machine that allows a decent degree of tuning to perform even better. And it might be wise to not stay too far away from this original blue print, since the R&D time and cost is not likely to be justified by a small production.


If we look at our cousins, 1/18, say Associated RC18T, which is a rather popular truck in US. There are quite a few 'conversion kits' successfully released. But did we see many custom 1/18? Those conversion kits are not be cheap, but yet hardly anyone is willing to take the plunge in making a brand new design.


Anyway, I am rambling now, and the post might not do much to improve the situation; but I do hope PN or parts maker get to read what's written here.
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Old 2009.07.17, 12:27 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
I told Richard some time back I was cooking up an AWD design, so now that I have time (not really... but I can allocate my time to the point where I sleep at 6AM every day ) I sat down and drew this up.



This is the unorthodox version... great CG and weight balance but the final product of this wouldn't be user-friendly at all -- the last AAA is on the other side of the motor. That's gonna make one helluva saddle pack, as I have been told. The motor would be hard to access as well since one of the screws is deep inside the car. I just stopped working on it because it's a bit too funky, lol...

Enter the orthodox revision.





A proper AAA pack, M18-style sliding motor mount, decent weight balance (needs 8g more on the servo to be perfectly balanced) and very decent CG. Chassis is a reasonable 60mm wide and can accept 94 or 98mm wheelbase bodies. I haven't designed sway bar attachments yet but 1) I don't know if they'll be necessary on a chassis this low and 2) I haven't bought a set for myself yet so I have no measurements.

Why the layout is flipped relative to the MA010: originally, just for space constraints. Putting the servo on the right side of the car allows a tiny bit more room as I can indent the upper deck where necessary. However... I did some research and found that for almost all major manufacturers' shaft-drive cars (Xray M18, Yokomo MR4TC SD, Tamiya TB Evo series, list goes on...) the motor is on the same side of the car as the rear diff. As far as my qualitative analysis goes, I believe it's the best compromise of on-power vs. off-power stability (the motor torque affects the car differently on and off-power, as you guys probably figured). Oh well, it's usually safe to copy the companies that win.

Anyways, as of current this is just a design study. I'll flesh it out a bit more with properly drawn knuckles, CVD's and geartrain and fine-tune the geometries before attempting to produce parts for this bad boy. Please let me know if this is something I should look into producing in the future.
Any update on this chassis color01?
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Old 2009.07.17, 04:41 PM   #67
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Actually yes.

Just yesterday I finally located and ordered some reasonably sized battery clips, which means -- drumroll please -- that if I am to use them,

1) I can put the batteries anywhere I want, and
2) Loose cells can be used instead of soldered packs!

I haven't worked much on the design since the last update, but just finding the battery clips is a significant step forwards.

So there are really just a few issues remaining before I hunker down and finish the design:

1) Gearing... without much space to move the motor around (assuming I put the 4th battery on the motor side), using the stock MA010 gears may be a challenge. Of course, I could always limit everyone to using the smallest spur (27t) but avoiding that compromise would be nice.
2) Servo/steering/tierod: I know approximately what I need to do, but shoving it all into a few cubic centimeters isn't easy, lol. I think I will have to design a servo "clamp" to keep the servo in place, since it is likely to be mounted vertically.
3) Bulkheads/suspension: the AWD is a major candidate for a dynamic strut suspension at all four corners, and I still think about it. The other possibility is to wait for PN to finish up the AWD A-arm suspension, and then just bolt that on. With my design's low CG we could definitely take advantage the additional grip provided by either type of suspension.

Haven't given up yet, but please don't forget that the original MRCG took nearly 3 years to get to the marketplace.
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Old 2009.07.17, 06:51 PM   #68
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Hey Brian.
Yes the new PN Racing front & rear unequal double -A-arms that Ben is working on for the 4wd chassis, could be a great suspension option for this project. Certainly, we would have to wait until PN release it, to know what it is about right!
Cheers
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Old 2009.07.17, 07:06 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
Actually yes.

Just yesterday I finally located and ordered some reasonably sized battery clips, which means -- drumroll please -- that if I am to use them,

1) I can put the batteries anywhere I want, and
2) Loose cells can be used instead of soldered packs!

I haven't worked much on the design since the last update, but just finding the battery clips is a significant step forwards.

So there are really just a few issues remaining before I hunker down and finish the design:

1) Gearing... without much space to move the motor around (assuming I put the 4th battery on the motor side), using the stock MA010 gears may be a challenge. Of course, I could always limit everyone to using the smallest spur (27t) but avoiding that compromise would be nice.
2) Servo/steering/tierod: I know approximately what I need to do, but shoving it all into a few cubic centimeters isn't easy, lol. I think I will have to design a servo "clamp" to keep the servo in place, since it is likely to be mounted vertically.
3) Bulkheads/suspension: the AWD is a major candidate for a dynamic strut suspension at all four corners, and I still think about it. The other possibility is to wait for PN to finish up the AWD A-arm suspension, and then just bolt that on. With my design's low CG we could definitely take advantage the additional grip provided by either type of suspension.

Haven't given up yet, but please don't forget that the original MRCG took nearly 3 years to get to the marketplace.
4th battery on the motor side would be nice. Good luck, I know its a challenge
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Old 2009.11.15, 10:03 AM   #70
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Just ran into this thread - very interested! (especially in using PN's upcoming front end, with your chassis)

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Old 2009.11.16, 07:02 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by color01 View Post
Actually yes.

Just yesterday I finally located and ordered some reasonably sized battery clips, which means -- drumroll please -- that if I am to use them,

1) I can put the batteries anywhere I want, and
2) Loose cells can be used instead of soldered packs!

I haven't worked much on the design since the last update, but just finding the battery clips is a significant step forwards.

So there are really just a few issues remaining before I hunker down and finish the design:

1) Gearing... without much space to move the motor around (assuming I put the 4th battery on the motor side), using the stock MA010 gears may be a challenge. Of course, I could always limit everyone to using the smallest spur (27t) but avoiding that compromise would be nice.
2) Servo/steering/tierod: I know approximately what I need to do, but shoving it all into a few cubic centimeters isn't easy, lol. I think I will have to design a servo "clamp" to keep the servo in place, since it is likely to be mounted vertically.
3) Bulkheads/suspension: the AWD is a major candidate for a dynamic strut suspension at all four corners, and I still think about it. The other possibility is to wait for PN to finish up the AWD A-arm suspension, and then just bolt that on. With my design's low CG we could definitely take advantage the additional grip provided by either type of suspension.

Haven't given up yet, but please don't forget that the original MRCG took nearly 3 years to get to the marketplace.
I would Like to Carry Both Kits on My New Site Coming very Soon.
www.addictiverc.com
www.addictiverc.ning.com
I sent you an Email.
Cheers, JohnW
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Old 2009.11.17, 10:21 PM   #72
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Li-Po Conversions

I am running a 2S 7.4v Li-Po conversion in my 1.1 Chassis and it really flies!
I just finished a 2S conversion for my AWD car.
I think it would be smart to make the New AWD Chassis be Li-Po Friendly.
Cheers, JohnW
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Old 2009.11.18, 01:41 AM   #73
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Question Up dates

Hi Brian
Hope this note finds U well.
Any up-date on your 4wd?
Thx
Cheers
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Old 2009.12.07, 04:29 AM   #74
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I would have to agree on the lipo or li-Ion... the ICR10440 Lithium Ion will have a 10mm diameter and 44mm length just like a AAA but a piece will produce about 3.10V at least... so putting two in series will be producing the same power (or more than) as 4 AAA nimh.

I like the design!!! I think I can fit my moped v16 bravo esc and 2.4Ghz rx module in that unit
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Old 2009.12.07, 04:45 AM   #75
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Still got nothing for you guys yet... the basic chassis layout is very simple, but there's the front and rear suspension to be determined and a problem of enclosing a Mini-Z servo on the chassis. I'm probably going to wait till Kyosho updates their AWD with the new servo, then approach this project again.
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