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Old 2009.01.05, 06:16 PM   #31
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I am more interested in a wide track front end than just a conversion chassis. Honestly, without the entire wide offset deal that you have to do on the AWD is what is keeping me away from AWD. I just dont feel that the response is there. Maybe if you make the wide track compatable with the MA-010 as well as the MRCG AWD, it can be sold as a seperate upgrade and everyone can benefit from it without having to use the conversion.

I am assuming that most tracks, and events will not allow the MRCG AWD in the stock classes, so it may be better to have it as a stand alone upgrade compatable with both. This way, the people that use the MA-010 can still use this in the stock and modified classes, and use the MRCG AWD in an open class.
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Old 2009.01.05, 07:29 PM   #32
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Just to clarify, if I do go wide front end it will be using the MA010 WTF parts that Reflex was working on. So I can technically release just the bare conversion kit, and leave the front and rear end up to the user, whether they want standard, WTF, SAS, etc. Cheaper that way too.
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Old 2009.01.05, 08:18 PM   #33
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Wow! Cool work and do look forward to your final product!

The pictures ActionB shown earlier in post(from Samy) are from a friend of mine, basically it was to modify the original AWD chassis and fusion it with MR02 chassis. I like the idea of laying all the 3 batteries flat and moving the last battery to the motor side to keep the weight lowest as possible.


1) As for the new MRCG AWD, it'd be cool to see it with lipo and normal AAA option(or let user choose), since it probably will not be mixing with normal AWD chassis to race. And the removable motor mount is totally an open invitation for using brushless motor!


2) As for the SAS compatibility, I have used both original version and Pro version. The original plastic one is crap, and the new version do see significant improvement. But durability wise, after a month worth of racing and practicing, some parts of the SAS Pro did see severe slack and the replacement rate was a little surprising to me.(never had any hard collision or flipping, only occasion rubbing, all wheels are 'retracted' under the shell)

So, in short, I do suggest not to use SAS pro design as a blue print/base package, but allowing people to choose the rear end might be a sound thing to do.


3) I sometimes do see wear and tear of the front knuckle hole, which it will enlarge over a period of time(sometimes people even broke the lobe).
Will it be possible to allow just the front lower chassis to be replaced(just like the rear lower chassis) but without replacing the whole main body?


4) As for servo saver, I have used a micro servo saver(made by JR?)for a mini servo used in Micro T(got saver from atomicm@ds), maybe it is worth while to look at its design or even adapt to use it?


Keep up the great work!
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Old 2009.01.05, 08:19 PM   #34
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Brilliant suggestion EMU, Indeed. I personally prefer wider, even I don’t know how it will perform on a 1/28 AWD. The experience on larger R/C scales has been very satisfactory, we don’t have wheels with offset on larger scales but “pivot balls” which allows you to set camber too. Any ideas Brian!?.
If at the end front wider end is the final decision, why not make it with adjustable camber, which will definitely improve ride performance thru a more smoothness reaction plus active-camber, perhaps this will maintain a low production coast since no deferent camber degree knuckles will be need, only 0-degree knuckles with longer dog-bone, plus longer steering rod.

As I said, my previous comment is based on objectivity. Considering the production cost and final selling price, in today’s financial and high unemployment crisis that certainly wont stop for a few years, as they say, it is in the middle, on its way to the bottom.

Brian I guess you are in the right direction, giving the consumer the right of making their choice. thru taking advantage of the great selection of optional parts all ready available in the market certainly you will have a lower production cost and a lower selling price.
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Old 2009.01.05, 09:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
1) As for the new MRCG AWD, it'd be cool to see it with lipo and normal AAA option(or let user choose), since it probably will not be mixing with normal AWD chassis to race. And the removable motor mount is totally an open invitation for using brushless motor!
There's certainly space for LiPo and Xcelorin, if you decide to go nuts.

Quote:
2) As for the SAS compatibility, I have used both original version and Pro version. The original plastic one is crap, and the new version do see significant improvement. But durability wise, after a month worth of racing and practicing, some parts of the SAS Pro did see severe slack and the replacement rate was a little surprising to me.(never had any hard collision or flipping, only occasion rubbing, all wheels are 'retracted' under the shell)

So, in short, I do suggest not to use SAS pro design as a blue print/base package, but allowing people to choose the rear end might be a sound thing to do.
Good to know, thanks! I had planned on using an SAS Pro II rear end when I finally get around to prototyping and testing the car, but maybe simpler is better. Any MA010 rear end will bolt right on though, so I can get some PN pieces to test with.

Quote:
3) I sometimes do see wear and tear of the front knuckle hole, which it will enlarge over a period of time(sometimes people even broke the lobe).
Will it be possible to allow just the front lower chassis to be replaced(just like the rear lower chassis) but without replacing the whole main body?
Definitely, I'll be designing the chassis with replaceable lower suspension arms.

Quote:
4) As for servo saver, I have used a micro servo saver(made by JR?)for a mini servo used in Micro T(got saver from atomicm@ds), maybe it is worth while to look at its design or even adapt to use it?
Probably not exclusively. The Micro-T saver is pretty small anyways, so if I can fit a normal (for example, RC18) micro saver, the Micro-T one will certainly fit.




Richard-- pivot balls at this scale is almost out of the question, it would be massively complicated, even more so than SAS. While I would love to CAD and make a car like that for my own enjoyment, the time required would put me finishing the project around the time the economy's already coming back up.



One 'active camber' idea I'm pursuing right now (for both MRCG AWD and as an upgrade for the MRCG) is the use of flex plates on top of the knuckles, instead of springs, to create a 'dynamic strut' setup a la 1/12 pan cars. I'd have to play around with 0.5mm G10 to get the right range of spring rates, and have to cut a LOT of prototypes to make sure the alignments (static camber and caster, and maybe dynamic caster too) are correct, but by taking away a point of sliding friction we can get better traction and response out of the suspension. I'll talk a bit more about this when I have some of my ideas solidly drawn in 3D.
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Old 2009.01.06, 07:50 PM   #36
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for that flex plate idea, wouldn't you need some kind of damper to control the motion?
if you make the flex plate upper, then will it be a direct replacement for the regular upper (is it deck or tower or plate?) pieces? like a rear flex plate system and a front flex plate system?
for the rear end, would you be making it just use the owner's existing ma10 rear or will you be machining a more CG intensive peice?
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Old 2009.01.06, 08:49 PM   #37
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True, I'm not sure what to do for damping if I use a front flex plate a-arm. If I do it though, I should be able to make it compatible with the regular MA010 bulkhead, so now that I have an 010 I can try it out on that first. I don't know how necessary front damping is to AWD performance so testing will be necessary.

I have figured out a front a-arm suspension for the MRCG (RWD) though so I'll be CADding some more of that as well. Sigh, there goes all my time.
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Old 2009.01.06, 09:07 PM   #38
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Question

Hi Brian
Are you referring to an swings lower A-arm as the Xmods Evo, and a shock with spring attach to the lower A-arm and a rigid upper bar or
plate?
Thx
Cheers
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Old 2009.01.07, 12:08 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by color01 View Post
edit

One 'active camber' idea I'm pursuing right now (for both MRCG AWD and as an upgrade for the MRCG) is the use of flex plates on top of the knuckles, instead of springs, to create a 'dynamic strut' setup a la 1/12 pan cars. I'd have to play around with 0.5mm G10 to get the right range of spring rates, and have to cut a LOT of prototypes to make sure the alignments (static camber and caster, and maybe dynamic caster too) are correct, but by taking away a point of sliding friction we can get better traction and response out of the suspension. I'll talk a bit more about this when I have some of my ideas solidly drawn in 3D.
Brian I think the 12th scale dynamic strut is active caster not active camber.
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Old 2009.01.07, 05:31 AM   #40
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I was having lunch with some old-timer-RC drivers(20+ years), and one thing did pop into mind about designing chassis. Definitely in 1/10 scale EP cars, we do see different design/ability/durability of the chassis; and it was mentioned to me that some chassis, though a proven chassis in big races, are a little more prone for breakage than the others.

I guess what I was trying to get to was Mini-z is fun to drive, partially because the down and maintenance time is low; especially compared to larger scale cars. And as MRCG being a more sophisticated chassis, it'd be great to see it being more capable/tunable while without forgoing too much stability/durability of the original chassis.

Btw, from my personal experience, front dampening is rather important...just as much as the rear. It will totally changes the driving characteristic of the car, so it probably is a wise thing to continue to allow this option open to drivers(being able to use original bulkhead/knuckle, and ppl able to apply grease onto the top pin)
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Old 2009.01.07, 06:59 AM   #41
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1/12 is dynamic camber as well as caster. I just designed version 1 of this kind of suspension, attached to an MRCG, but it's way too complicated to put on the AWD. I designed custom WTF knuckles to go with it too, but having finished the 1st design, I know this won't work out costwise. Plus if front dampening is important, then I should totally scratch this idea for AWD because there's no room for damper lube. Back to standard bulkheads.


As for durability: with the MRCG this was tricky and I think I've found a good compromise, but with the AWD version I can make it a tank with no effects on performance. So no need to worry here.
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Old 2009.01.07, 10:47 AM   #42
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Hi guy's, awesome stuff there. Great to see two people working on similar designs. I recall a German company I think called Carbon-Techniques or something like that of which made some really sweet carbon-fiber chassis for the Mini-Z chassis, even a killer chassis kit for the Monster truck! However, I think they used Xmod parts for the AWD as this was done just before the MA010 came out. If I can find their web site, I'll post their link here. I've always wanted one of their kit's, but was way to expensive to complete a chassis, plus wasn't sure how to order from their site as it was all in German.
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Old 2009.01.07, 02:59 PM   #43
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I think you're talking about http://www.carbo6cell.ch/ , it's a suisse site but it's offline since long time !
Awesome stuff you could see there...carbon and alloy only on some very interesting and smart design chassis for all types of small scale cars, on & off road !
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Old 2009.01.07, 04:19 PM   #44
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Brian,

One suggestion for your AWD would be to get some high level drivers to test it for you and give you feedback.

In AWD a few names come to mind like

TJ and Hernandez.. Both of these guys are current PN World Champs in AWD and could give you some great feedback.

In my opion front damping is very important, we have different springs currently and this is a must.
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Old 2009.01.07, 11:25 PM   #45
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1/12 is dynamic camber as well as caster. I just designed version 1 of this kind of suspension, attached to an MRCG, but it's way too complicated to put on the AWD. I designed custom WTF knuckles to go with it too, but having finished the 1st design, I know this won't work out costwise. Plus if front dampening is important, then I should totally scratch this idea for AWD because there's no room for damper lube. Back to standard bulkheads.


As for durability: with the MRCG this was tricky and I think I've found a good compromise, but with the AWD version I can make it a tank with no effects on performance. So no need to worry here.
Haha my bad there is some camber gain during compression.
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