Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2015.05.20, 06:34 AM   #16
DMALMAD
Registered User
 
DMALMAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 582
I would agree with Jesset, before going into incharted territory with the ve changing fets I would invest in some decent sets of batteries and a couple of good chargers and dischargers.
DMALMAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.20, 08:17 AM   #17
Jshwaa
Registered User
 
Jshwaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMALMAD View Post
I would agree with Jesset, before going into incharted territory with the ve changing fets I would invest in some decent sets of batteries and a couple of good chargers and dischargers.
While I agree with the words of caution, I don't see how enhancing the power supply alone will solve the FET heating issue. Perhaps my suggestion should have been to purchase a higher power ESC for the higher power motor, rather than do surgery on the existing ESC. My procedure would have been to take the cells out of the equation and hook it up to a DC power supply and see if the heat issue still exists. I understand that option isn't there for most folks, so if batteries are all you have then you may have to include enhancing them as well, regardless of the FET heating issue. After all, you did double the demand of your motor, so you should double the 'fuel' too.

However, whatever you do is up to you and the decision should include your personal skill level and whatever desire you would have to find out for yourself whether or not you can get away with adding $3 worth of components to your existing, or if there are other design considerations within the brushless drives 'other than FET throughput' that are causing your heat issue. I myself haven't dissected the brushless systems to know if the KV value of the motors only include the turns of wire, or if there are programmed timing differences built into the motors that the drives have to be aware of. This could be a learning experience for me, if not for the group. Whatever you do, please share.
__________________
Electrical Engineer
Mini-Z/RC Enthusiast
Jshwaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.20, 12:13 PM   #18
TheSteve
VE7FM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojak View Post
Is it VE board can support 12000kV brushless motor?
Recently I upgrade my motor from 5600KV to 12000 KV,after a while run the car, then suddenly it become cogging when I full throttle. Thinking maybe the battery is weak already, i swap with fresh one,but still same.
I take out the motor and try full throttle with my tx, i fell the motor is cogging at full throttle and it becoming very hot.
Any idea?Is it I need to add more FET at my VE board?since by stock VE board got double side FET.
If the motor cogs at full throttle with no load then something is likely damaged. Either a FET or the motor itself has probably failed.
TheSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.20, 03:04 PM   #19
mleemor60
Curmudgeon & Moderator
 
mleemor60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kannapolis, NC
Posts: 2,549
Are you trying to pull the same gear ratio with the bigger motor? First thing i would do is go to the smallest pinion and the biggest spur and start there. With a very low gear ratio the heat load should go down. If issue goes away start adding teeth until problem comes back then back up a couple.
mleemor60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.20, 05:59 PM   #20
DMALMAD
Registered User
 
DMALMAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jshwaa View Post
While I agree with the words of caution, I don't see how enhancing the power supply alone will solve the FET heating issue. Perhaps my suggestion should have been to purchase a higher power ESC for the higher power motor, rather than do surgery on the existing ESC. My procedure would have been to take the cells out of the equation and hook it up to a DC power supply and see if the heat issue still exists. I understand that option isn't there for most folks, so if batteries are all you have then you may have to include enhancing them as well, regardless of the FET heating issue. After all, you did double the demand of your motor, so you should double the 'fuel' too.

However, whatever you do is up to you and the decision should include your personal skill level and whatever desire you would have to find out for yourself whether or not you can get away with adding $3 worth of components to your existing, or if there are other design considerations within the brushless drives 'other than FET throughput' that are causing your heat issue. I myself haven't dissected the brushless systems to know if the KV value of the motors only include the turns of wire, or if there are programmed timing differences built into the motors that the drives have to be aware of. This could be a learning experience for me, if not for the group. Whatever you do, please share.
I think this is more of a motor issue rather then a fet issue. I have experienced ve motors overheating and breaking and the ve fets stand up to some abuse. So rather then take chances only to have to replace a 120 board I think getting a new motor ans some good batteries is a much better option. Not everyone has the skills to first know which fets would be correct for the ve (I do not even know) or the skills to put them on right without blowing the board. I have personally blown more than my fair shair of boards doing fet swaps before I became better at it and most newbs and average racers I know don't have the skill or the need to swap fets so that is usually the last recomendation I would give. Just trying to be helpful as I have made mistakes before that were pretty expensive and I would not wish those same mistakes on anyone else
DMALMAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.21, 09:29 AM   #21
Jshwaa
Registered User
 
Jshwaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMALMAD View Post
I think this is more of a motor issue rather then a fet issue. I have experienced ve motors overheating and breaking and the ve fets stand up to some abuse. So rather then take chances only to have to replace a 120 board I think getting a new motor ans some good batteries is a much better option. Not everyone has the skills to first know which fets would be correct for the ve (I do not even know) or the skills to put them on right without blowing the board. I have personally blown more than my fair shair of boards doing fet swaps before I became better at it and most newbs and average racers I know don't have the skill or the need to swap fets so that is usually the last recomendation I would give. Just trying to be helpful as I have made mistakes before that were pretty expensive and I would not wish those same mistakes on anyone else
It's all good. It's better to be safe than sorry, no doubt, however it is very liberating when you can safely pull off FET jobs as easy as a 'plug and play'. The rule is to never check your work by applying power to the board. You have to check off your connections, and double-check for shorts. That is a separate discipline in itself, regardless of your skill with a soldering iron or the tools at your disposal. The videos on FET jobs don't explain this, as they wouldn't bother to show you how NOT to solder a FET, or the mistakes that are commonly made.

You wouldn't need to bother changing FETs from a performance perspective, until all of a sudden everyone else does. I think that a FET upgrade would 'possibly' allow for less heat dissipation, leaving more energy for racing, and maximizing your batteries for the long haul, as well as providing more current for less cogging when accelerating. Just a thought...
__________________
Electrical Engineer
Mini-Z/RC Enthusiast
Jshwaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.05.21, 03:23 PM   #22
JesseT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 56
rojak,

You need to judge yourself, if the problem came directly with the 12000kv motor, or did something go wrong afterwards.
Also, do you mean with cogging, that it doesn't really start to spin properly at all, and is constantly hesitating, or is it hesitating slightly only at low speed corner exists?

If it's a constant failure, then I would check if all the three phases are working on the motor.
The FETs of the VE board pretty much accept all available motors without issues.
JesseT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.06.10, 02:48 AM   #23
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseT View Post
rojak,

You need to judge yourself, if the problem came directly with the 12000kv motor, or did something go wrong afterwards.
Also, do you mean with cogging, that it doesn't really start to spin properly at all, and is constantly hesitating, or is it hesitating slightly only at low speed corner exists?

If it's a constant failure, then I would check if all the three phases are working on the motor.
The FETs of the VE board pretty much accept all available motors without issues.
Hi JesseT,
The motor start spin without problem with small throttle,but when I put full throttle,the motor start cogging. It still spinning, but hesitating and it became really hot. I change the motor to xpeed VE the red color one. No issue at all, and i think the motor itself got problem.
__________________
MR01->MA-020VE->MR02-VE>MB010
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.06.10, 04:16 PM   #24
JesseT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojak View Post
Hi JesseT,
The motor start spin without problem with small throttle,but when I put full throttle,the motor start cogging. It still spinning, but hesitating and it became really hot. I change the motor to xpeed VE the red color one. No issue at all, and i think the motor itself got problem.
A easy way to check a brushless motor, is to spin it with another motor, drill, dremel or something else. Then, short each phase one at a time A-B, B-C and C-A and feel if in all three cases it produces an equivalent braking effect. Better yet, use a multimeter to short it in AC current measuring mode to see if you get three equal readings. Sometimes it's the soldering of the coils that needs redoing.
JesseT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2015.06.10, 07:45 PM   #25
rojak
Registered User
 
rojak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseT View Post
A easy way to check a brushless motor, is to spin it with another motor, drill, dremel or something else. Then, short each phase one at a time A-B, B-C and C-A and feel if in all three cases it produces an equivalent braking effect. Better yet, use a multimeter to short it in AC current measuring mode to see if you get three equal readings. Sometimes it's the soldering of the coils that needs redoing.
Yes,you are right,after I re solder the coil, the motor is okay already.
__________________
MR01->MA-020VE->MR02-VE>MB010
rojak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mini-Z Brushless Motor Specs arch2b Motor Tech 17 2020.01.03 11:58 AM
MR-03 VE : Kyosho brushless motor MZ504 Mitchell Kyosho 2 2013.08.22 12:37 PM
Brushless Miniz Buggy's, when? targetingxmod Mini-Z Buggy MB-010 0 2012.10.28 12:46 PM
MR03 brushless !!!!!!!!!!!!! pepeuch Mini-Z Racer MR-03, MR-03 VE, Sports Series, EVO 57 2012.10.16 10:08 PM
Brushless Motor Mod on a F1 Mini-Z EQMOD General Discussion 28 2012.08.22 10:53 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts