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Old 2018.10.31, 09:51 AM   #1
unclearty
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MR-02 FETs...

My club has 6 drivers.....4 of us have newer all black chassis cars, but 2 have the earlier chassis with some blue parts. We keep all vehicles stock, but we are noticing that both of the blue vehicles have a slight edge on speed. We have tried all combinations...giving each other batteries right off the chargers, etc.
I'm trying to figure out if the two different chassis have different FETs.
Also....if there IS a difference, how difficult would it be to "upgrade" the newer 4 cars to the same FETs?
Is there an FET that is better for running pure stock?
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Old 2018.10.31, 10:56 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclearty View Post
My club has 6 drivers.....4 of us have newer all black chassis cars, but 2 have the earlier chassis with some blue parts. We keep all vehicles stock, but we are noticing that both of the blue vehicles have a slight edge on speed. We have tried all combinations...giving each other batteries right off the chargers, etc.
I'm trying to figure out if the two different chassis have different FETs.
Also....if there IS a difference, how difficult would it be to "upgrade" the newer 4 cars to the same FETs?
Is there an FET that is better for running pure stock?

Can you look a little closer at the different cars, and see which versions you have? Are these all MR02 for sure? Are they 27AM, FM, or ASF (EX)? Are you sure the black ones aren't MR03 Sports?

I'd have to dig up some old notes, but as I recall, the FETS on MR02 kept getting better until the end of MR02s, and early MR03 (ASF), and then took a fairly significant downgrade with the MR03 sport. I know you said MR02, but the all-black MR02 were pretty short-lived, so thought I'd check. I think all-black MR02 were later EX versions.

I've recently been spending a little more time with fine tuning with things like spacers, shims, bearing cleaner and lubricant, gear mesh, wheel nut tightness, etc., and it's surprising how much extra speed you can squeeze out of a car just by making sure everything is moving as smooth as it can. It can present itself as a significant speed difference between two otherwise similar cars.
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Old 2018.10.31, 02:04 PM   #3
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it could also be variation in motor fabrication tolerance. Unless you get a blueprinted motor, you will always see a degree of variation in performance.
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Old 2018.10.31, 07:29 PM   #4
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If they are all ASF models, they should all have 2x2 3010 fet installed. The MR03 Sport I believe have 3010 1x2 fet, and the newest RWD/FWD have a newer fet that is actually rated pretty well, very close to the 8858 fet, but only 1x2.

The motor variation could be an issue, as well as the differential tightness. Are these all using the stock differential and mount? All have bearings in the chassis?

I have noticed through my years, that some electronics are simply faster, even with the same fets and motors as other cars. I used to reserve these for spec motor class racing. Some electronics felt slow even after upgrading the fets, adjusting settings, and resoldering all of the power and motor wires to ensure there were no bad joints. These variations where in the same model of electronics as well.

Do you have an ICS adapter, to check the settings on the electronics to ensure that they are all set the same? Have you tried binding the cars to different transmitters? Everyone using the same batteries, all chassis battery contacts the same?
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Old 2018.10.31, 11:20 PM   #5
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All good points posted above...

My guess as mentioned, it might be in the electronics...
If you can open up the both chassis and post pics of the two boards...

Another thing that you might want to try is swapping out the motors of the faster cars into the slower cars to see if there are any changes...

Motors might be dirty and need cleaning...

I do remember seeing some mr02ex versions with the black chassis online... but never knew that there were performance issues of it being slower...

As for changing fets I guess you could swap them out for better ones... if you can find some (haven't really looked for one in quite a while, so I'm not up to date on what is the best fet there is out there...) and if you are pretty adept at soldering...

Pretty curious at seeing the boards side by side though... I also do remember that there was a post on documenting the progression of boards through the years... I think arch started it...

Anyway good luck and hope this helps.
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Old 2018.11.01, 05:33 AM   #6
unclearty
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I will need to go home tonight and take some pix. The point to all of this is....we purposely keep all things equal. We use the same bearing..ceramic not allowed....we bought a number of new Kyosho stock motors..we use the same tires...no ball bearing diffs allowed...all the same transmitters. We all came from 1/10th scale racing where it was a constant battle to get the newest, fastest gizmo to win the A main this week. We decided on an ALL THINGS EQUAL class so that driving skill was the most important factor. However, there is still a very slight speed differential between the 2 earlier cars and the other 4.
I'll see what I can do tonight when I get home.
Thanks for all the help so far!
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Old 2018.11.01, 07:48 AM   #7
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If I recall correctly, the MR-02EX simply fixed the reverse delay that was the inherent in the first run of ASF MR-02's.

In the end, your going to find variation in stock motors as well. Some will keep up with 70T, some are dogs. We always bought them in batches and dumped the slow ones in demonstration cars.
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Old 2018.11.02, 01:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
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We decided on an ALL THINGS EQUAL class so that driving skill was the most important factor. However, there is still a very slight speed differential between the 2 earlier cars and the other 4.
I like how you guys roll... racing based on skill - one of the purest forms of racing... keeping everything as equal as possible... keeps it quite affordabe for more racers to get into without breaking the bank too...

For some reason, motors (even stock) are not created equal... ive seen that there are stock motors that you couldn't believe were stock... like go figure...

Do hope you get things sorted out.... either that or maybe time for everybody to move to a mr03?
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Old 2018.11.02, 02:36 AM   #9
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Where is your club located?


We run a very restricted kyosho stock class for that specific reason. Plastic mounts, gear diffs... we only permit bearings, t-plate, wheel nuts, kyosho tires and are starting to include a disc damper for the car's that do not include one from the box.

This class really sets the performance very equal, and offers amazing racing for minimal expenditure. We had previously run a box stock class that only permitted tire and bearing upgrades, but gradually expanded the rule set for durability reasons and very slight tuning options to increase the inclusion of more bodies and wheelbase options. Otherwise everyone would be restricted to a handful of bodies, and in mini-z we love variety.

We also run a more open ruled 70 comp class with basically only restriction on body, 70t motor, and aaa nimh... you would be surprised by how close the kyosho stock and 70 comp times are. 70 comp basically uses the HFAY rule set with a couple restrictions reduced (open chassis and electronics).

It is easy to dump loads of money in to a car, and in the end only gain .1s lap time over a car that has less than $50 extra (including tires) over the initial cost of the car. The stock class removes the pay to win angle that many racers feel that they need to do to be competitive, and gets people on track with few setup adjustments available where they could lose the car in setup. Getting on track and turning laps is the only real way to improve. Spending all of the time in the pits tweaking everything between rounds just gives more chance of getting lost with how the car is handling. RC is 90% tires, so investing on tires is the wisest place to spend the money.

We run one company tire to reduce expenditure of searching for tires constantly. Kyosho rubber has a wide setup window, and amazing shelf life. It might not be the fastest tire, as PN and marka tend to be faster, but I have tires 10 years old that I am still using.
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Old 2018.11.02, 11:54 AM   #10
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This is exactly WHY we made the rules the way we did. We all raced 1/10th many years ago....when it was pay to win. Each week was $100 plus....just to keep up. It's much more fun with all things equal.
As far as motors go...we HAVE tried swapping motors with each other....we even ordered new motors....let each member pick one from the pile, and STILL the 2 early cars were just a smidge faster....even swapping batteries...the outcome is always the same.
I will get some time this weekend to get some pix of the chassis and get them up on here.
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Old 2018.11.04, 01:36 AM   #11
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Dunno if this is still available...



The tamiya speed checker... try putting each car on it to see if speeds are similar... otherwise, the earlier boards might have a slight advantage....
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Old 2018.11.04, 08:14 AM   #12
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The use of that speed checker was debunked back in the MR-01 days, which is part why you rarely see them used to measure Mini-Z anything. It's good for general testing.
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Old 2018.11.04, 07:01 PM   #13
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The use of that speed checker was debunked back in the MR-01 days, which is part why you rarely see them used to measure Mini-Z anything. It's good for general testing.
I personally haven't even used one... and yes I'd have to agree with the speed checker not giving the actual speed as it wasn't that accurate...(I forgot to mention this in my previous post), but I guess it still can be used to gauge which cars are quite similar in "speed" and which cars are faster, or slower in terms of output "speed"... hope this helps...
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Old 2018.11.05, 07:01 PM   #14
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The speed checker is really only good to test unloaded speeds, basically motor rpm x final drive ratio x rollout. A car that wins on the speed checker could be one of the slowest cars on track.

It's good for comparing like cars, and seeing which has more top end. I have never felt the need to add one to my pit. A motor rpm and amperage checker would give more useful information and is a fraction of the size.
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