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Old 2015.01.06, 10:49 AM   #31
arch2b
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our stock class has never been confused with a 'box' stock class and has we never used the term 'box' very intentionally. it's not so much keeping it purely to box stock but keeping the total investment at a minimum without drifting into HFAY with a stock motor territory.

a refresher of the discussion on permitted options for those that may not have been around for them.
t plates often break as a result of crashes and replacements are only available within a parts kit that includes many un-necessary parts. i don't recall anyone ever breaking a spring. loosing a spring yes, but it's rare that a spring breaks. i do see the merit in the discussion though and will discuss it further this saturday.
MM t plate parts kit MZ204 $7: 1 plastic t plate and MM motor mount
RM t plate parts kit MZ210 $6: 1 plastic t plate and RM motor mount
Kyosho FRP t plat sets MZW410H, MZW410M, MZW410S, MZW409S, MZW409M, MZW409H $19: 3 t plates of a specific stiffness in either RM/HM or MM/LM. there are a few others in sets of 3 but include S, M and H at the same price range. the average replacement from PN or Atomic runs about $4-6 however are much more durable than plastic and your not saddled with extra parts that may or may not be used. i am still running the stock plastic h plate and i know a couple others are as well.

ball bearings are not solely for performance but mainly to accommodate extended use of stock motors and extending run times. our desire to maintain stock motor class requires concessions to make it viable in the long run. to this day i do not understand why kyosho includes plastic bushings in kits. even their mini-z cup allowed for ball bearings. i've given away more sets of bearings than many have ever bought and still keep a couple sets on hand just in case someone joins and doesn't have any and not comfortable paying for the Kyosho bearings. i never have and never will spend $$$ on high end bearings. I run the same $8 boca bearings or bearings included in past purchased 'cup' kits. if TRC ever restocked the dry race bearings, i'd jump back to those in a heart beat but alas, TRC has not restocked in maybe 10 years.

lock nuts are unsprung weight in the end. some swear by them, others prefer the plastic. in the end, they are not a performance part but used in effort to reduce chance of loosing a wheel during a race, despite the high entertainment value it typically provides. i've had better luck with alloy thus always use them. there are very cheap alloy lock nuts available and always have some on hand if anyone needs them.
This is very similar to the request for alloy motor heat sinks. they are added weight and serve to maintain the stock motor and agree these should be permitted. please note, this is limited to motor spacers/heat sinks, not motor pods because they may include heat sinks as part of the kit.

LM is a matter of choice. it comes as standard equipment on a 'stock' LM kit. if driver X feels this is what they need to compete, the choice is there to switch to LM autoscale of choice. there are near endless choices to be made in terms of which chassis and autoscale to choose in the end, each based on driver X criteria. i see this as one of the many strengths of stock class vs. a fault. i do see the merit in the discussion though and will discuss it further this saturday. if i recall correctly, even the kyosho mini-z cup permitted the stock spring damper shock on chassis that did not include it.

if anyone is ever in need of a part for stock class and is not comfortable paying for kyosho parts, please inquire with me. i am more than happy to assist and typically have extra's of just about everything on hand.

i'm currently working on a new member parts kit as we speak that will include bearings, ample supply of lock nuts, proper box wrench, Philips screw driver for about $15. i already dispensed to HW a large quantity of battery cases to be distributed to new members.

to reinforce the goal stated earlier, our club aims to provide multiple classes to suit many tastes while remaining individual and unique. the danger you run into in building multiple classes and diluting them to the point where you have a collection of HFAY classes with different motors and or batteries. HFAY is the tuner wet dream. you get any and all option parts with minimal autoscale limits, min. weight, battery, motor and limited extent, electronics restrictions. you can run your stock car as many do in this class or drop another $500 in parts and split with mod class which some do. other classes are more specific in nature and more or less restrictive proportionally. mod will really be run whatever fits under 1/27 scale. 86-90mm utilizes the short wheelbase body selected and NiMh batteries as the limiting factor in what your imagination can build under it. stock class is all about what can you get out of a minimal setup in terms of skill/investment and adapting skill to the limited platform/investment. the obvious benefits are providing HW with a venue for direct sales to race category and driver skill development program without placing the stigma on it of calling it a novice or starter class. there are no expectations on my part that all will join all classes.



i just found a great small parts kit however that has 1 MM/MM and 1 RM/HM, 1 set of knuckles and 1 W and 1 N tie rod that is very affordable making stock t plates a viable option. we can discuss going back to stock only t plates if desired as this targeted parts kit for breakable front end parts makes this feasible. i am checking on it's availability. i am happy to go back to stock t plate only myself.
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Old 2015.01.06, 11:36 AM   #32
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Thanks for summing that up Ray. As I mentioned and why I've been around it's about the fun and you've captured the essence of that with this club. That's why you've been around so long.

I really liked those dry bearings...10 years ago ll! we've been around a long time buddy
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Old 2015.08.29, 09:25 AM   #33
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2016 rule modifications

good morning gentlemen. I am open to allowing front springs into the stock class (for 2016) 1 of 2 ways;
1. allow only the optional springs in the kyosho starter kit (it is a race start kit afterall).
2. when HW gets in PN parts, allowing the PN spring set. this is entirely dependent on HW carrying PN however.

the reasons are not arbitrary, we are in HW house and need to be respectful of our symbiotic relationship. it's a quid pro quot deal, we get floor and shelf space, they get foot traffic and sales. lest we forget... we've been racing there for free there are no restrictions on bringing is outside purchases and no worries on that front either which is another tip in our favor however we need to be mindful of our request for HW to support our parts needs and not leave them with unsold shelf warming stock which benefits no one. if they sell through, they order more of what we want. its that simple.
i know, were way past that on H plates... that too will be rectified when HW carries PN. hindsight is always clearer and should have restricted H plates in the beginning but alas, we are where we are.

stock class is and will always remain a stock motor, very limited options class, a 'drivers' class if you will. if that creates some frustration i suggest trying HFAY class where the doors are pushed open or even MOD class where the doors have been taken off the hinges. stock and HFAY have really been my favorites myself.

i will update the rules when appropriate (for 2016) with a listing of acceptable option parts and only items on this list will be permitted. for sanity sake, i may not list each and every part number and provide direction vs. itemized list.

overall, want to thank everyone for 8 months of stock class racing under our belts, it's been a lot of fun. it's not been without it's controversy but overall i believe it to be working well and achieving its stated goals. we will be sure to have a debriefing in December, a 'Festivus' event in which grievances can be shared and learned from in making necessary tweaks for 2016 to build on the success thus far. i'll need someone else to bring the aluminum pole though...
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Old 2015.08.29, 10:47 AM   #34
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Kyosho stock is a great class.
I would lose by the least amount laps to the winners compared to other classes.
I like to see stock battery and chargers
Also stock tires.
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Old 2015.08.29, 12:19 PM   #35
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no practical way to legislate chargers/batteries and unless you require alkaline, which is wasteful and expensive. someone can take the cheapest of nimh batteries and still go through all the work to cycle, test and match them, price point will not change this. this is evident by many using the cheaper Duratrax batteries vs. other high end cells.

can't practically implement stock tires either unless mandating Kyosho 20r/30f combo. Kyosho mixes up the tire batches in readysets, autoscales over time making it impossible to ensure everyone is running the same thing. as soon as HW carries PN, the tire choices are again flat across the board making it equally available to all at low cost. most run kyosho but some prefer PN rear tires, it's all personal preference and driving style, much like t plate.

one also has to recognize, not everyone is an 'a main' driver as well (i fall in this category) takes some measure of self awareness and acknowledgement that not everyone has the same skill set despite speed of car. through practice and skill building though, in a class that is relatively flat, it offers the best opportunity to achieve that end. stock class offers the best opportunity to finish higher due to greater influence of cleaner driving lines and consistency.
i always recommend getting on the track and simply following the faster guys in practice as this assists in finding the optimal line and hopefully staying out of trouble getting around (clean passing). the fast guys are not always the literal fastest cars but the ones that have the best lines and most consistent. can't stress that stuff enough, consistency and clean driving. get those polished and it doesn't matter what your driving people have won MOD class with a stock car for example.

Last edited by arch2b; 2015.08.29 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 2015.08.30, 09:56 AM   #36
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Good stuff!
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Old 2015.08.31, 12:09 PM   #37
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b View Post
no practical way to legislate chargers/batteries and unless you require alkaline, which is wasteful and expensive. someone can take the cheapest of nimh batteries and still go through all the work to cycle, test and match them, price point will not change this. this is evident by many using the cheaper Duratrax batteries vs. other high end cells.

can't practically implement stock tires either unless mandating Kyosho 20r/30f combo. Kyosho mixes up the tire batches in readysets, autoscales over time making it impossible to ensure everyone is running the same thing. as soon as HW carries PN, the tire choices are again flat across the board making it equally available to all at low cost. most run kyosho but some prefer PN rear tires, it's all personal preference and driving style, much like t plate.

one also has to recognize, not everyone is an 'a main' driver as well (i fall in this category) takes some measure of self awareness and acknowledgement that not everyone has the same skill set despite speed of car. through practice and skill building though, in a class that is relatively flat, it offers the best opportunity to achieve that end. stock class offers the best opportunity to finish higher due to greater influence of cleaner driving lines and consistency.
i always recommend getting on the track and simply following the faster guys in practice as this assists in finding the optimal line and hopefully staying out of trouble getting around (clean passing). the fast guys are not always the literal fastest cars but the ones that have the best lines and most consistent. can't stress that stuff enough, consistency and clean driving. get those polished and it doesn't matter what your driving people have won MOD class with a stock car for example.
Good points Ray.

Last edited by poochy; 2015.08.31 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 2015.08.31, 07:08 PM   #38
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I have no issues with anyone changing springs. They are a very low cost item. I will not be changing the springs on the front of my car but I could see someone with a very narrow car wanting to go softer in the front.

One thing that I noticed was that the metal 4th gear for the servo is not listed as a option part for the stock class? This is in no way a performance part but it is a reliability part as much as the T bar is.
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Old 2015.08.31, 08:54 PM   #39
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An oversight I will correct. The option servo gear is permitted in all our classes.
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Old 2016.05.16, 06:50 AM   #40
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Kyosho now sells pinions in a separate parts kit, MZW119. these are permitted in stock class.

From all accounts thus far, the new MM2 motor mount will be a new stock part thus permitted in stock class. we are awaiting more definitive information as it's not yet available it parts kit form.
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Old 2016.05.16, 10:18 AM   #41
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The MM2 is only going to be stock on the brushless car as far as the reports go. Are we going to allow brushless in stock racing?
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Old 2016.05.16, 11:38 AM   #42
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i'm sure thats a result of nearly all kits moving to brushless vs. sports. you can get LM both ways thus LM parts are permitted in both forms, this would be no different and looks to solve the issue of LM being chosen for the damper alone alloying many to go back to shorter wheelbases which will hopefully make it a more diverse class again. i'm sticking to my guns and continue to run 98mm anyway so not really a big deal for me but i know some pick wheelbase based on damping alone.

PN stock class brushless motor was just released... lets get time to evaluate before jumping to any rash decisions we've clearly shown even the 5000K motors are on part if not faster than a 70T.
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Old 2016.05.16, 08:12 PM   #43
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If money permits I'll pick one up for testing.

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Old 2016.05.16, 09:35 PM   #44
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The new 70T brushless is very conparable to brushed...defenitly not to fast.
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Old 2016.05.17, 05:45 AM   #45
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Next question is how easy is it to fit in the stock motor pods? Reason being is Washington GTG stock class does not allow allow motor mounts. I have a spare brushless motor and I'll see how it fits but I doubt it will sit normal since the pods are designed around the D shaped can.

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