2004.11.15, 03:24 PM
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#16
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MINI-Z SOLDIER
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: MOTORCITY, MI
Posts: 600
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One of those grabber reach things is nice for inside the track........the pit lane thing should be a must..........you don't notice it till you hit a parked car how cool a pit lane is
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2004.11.15, 03:43 PM
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#17
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Pet Human
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary_Racer
TNB,
I suspect that you, as a very active member, might have seen them all already. I am talking mostly about those European (from Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc) and Asian (Hong Kong, japan, Malaysia, etc) tracks that have "real radius" turns, some turf and, in some cases, some trees, little houses, etc.
If I find one that is particularly cool I will post it as an example.
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Yes, I've seen photos of those overseas tracks though I have never seen them in person. I think that some of the Overland tracks look pretty neat and do look fun to drive on though they seem permanent, non-configurable and look very heavy. Of course, some of the buildings I'm using are made in Germany and well built, though pricy. I'm also thinking about getting some green "turf" to lay under my track to go with the trees, bridge, etc. that I already use in my layouts.
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2004.11.15, 03:50 PM
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#18
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Pet Human
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightfighter
One of those grabber reach things is nice for inside the track........the pit lane thing should be a must..........you don't notice it till you hit a parked car how cool a pit lane is
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I add a pit lane every now and then. However, some of the photos I've seen with cars wedged in between the wooden or plastic rails look like it would take more than a grabber "pole" to reach and get a stuck car out from a raised track if the track didn't have any room to walk between the lanes and turn marshal. Basically, it look liked a job for human hands.
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2004.11.15, 04:30 PM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 35,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightfighter
One of those grabber reach things is nice for inside the track........the pit lane thing should be a must..........you don't notice it till you hit a parked car how cool a pit lane is
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how true i always include a pit lane in my layouts
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2004.11.15, 04:35 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNB
Yes, I've seen photos of those overseas tracks though I have never seen them in person. I think that some of the Overland tracks look pretty neat and do look fun to drive on though they seem permanent, non-configurable and look very heavy. Of course, some of the buildings I'm using are made in Germany and well built, though pricy. I'm also thinking about getting some green "turf" to lay under my track to go with the trees, bridge, etc. that I already use in my layouts.
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The other day, in the slot car section of my local hobby store I saw some buildings that might look pretty good on a Mini-Z track.
Scalextric has some made of cardboard that might not look very nice from a close distance but might be quite nice from further distance.
Check it here:
http://www.scalextricusa.com/scalekit_building.asp
There was some other brand as well (Carrera or SCX, I do not remember) that has kind of the same buildings but made of plastic.
I hope it helps!
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2004.11.15, 04:44 PM
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#21
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Rockin Da Z
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NL, Canada
Posts: 3,112
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pretty tiny scale on those buildings, if they were 1/24 then i'd buy a dozen in a heartbeat
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2004.11.15, 04:49 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lee, NH
Posts: 562
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Well I was in the same dilemma that you are having when we first opened our hobby shop. My home basement track was a wood track with grit paint on the surface and a couple other guys had the same surface. So we started off buying plywood to put on the concrete floor to paint with the grit paint. Well that was ok for about three months. The surface just was not consistent. Slippery spots and super traction spots. Then the groove started to ware out. For new racers that need lots of practice it just didn't work out. It was hard enough for them to learn how to drive a RC car.
So at the time the next best surface was Ozite carpet. We bought the Ozite carpet and glued it over the painted grit surface. The Ozite worked well but for mini-zs with rubber tires it just wasn't enough traction for the light cars. Then we tried foam tires for the mini-z cars but getting the good foam power tiers was a pain and for a while we couldn't get them. We raced on the Ozite for about 2 years before getting the tires ended up being a problem.
Then when the kyosho cup came out and the RCP track was released i replaced my basement track with the RCP track for practicing. I liked the track so much i put it in the shop and everyone loves the surface. We are back to running rubber tires on the mini-zs and foams on the x-rays. Every week we change the track to a different configuration to train our drivers to adjust to different layouts. Everyone’s skill level is just getting higher and higher.
I would have saved a lot of money if the RCP track was available back in the beginning.
I would say the best surface to race on is the RCP track surface and would recommend it for any commercial place. Racers will also want to buy the track from the shop so they can practice at home so they can get an edge over other racers.
__________________
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PN Team Driver
2008 PN World Champion
2008 PN Canadian Champion
2006 PN World Champion
2004 Kyosho Cup National Champion
2003 Kyosho Cup National Champion
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2004.11.15, 05:01 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCPMini-z
I believe for a commercial or club track you need to install a surface with the best grip you can find. Your track will be visited by people of all skill levels and you need to have something available to meet everyone’s needs. It is much harder to set your car up to grip on a surface that offers poor or medium grip characteristics than it is to make adjustments on a grip surface to allow your car to slide or drift around the turns. Most gripy surfaces that I have tested still require a soft rubber tire in order to run tight around the turns. Installing hard or stock tires on your car, will allow you to slide as much as you want, even on the gripiest surfaces.
In order to obtain what some call a “realistic” feel on a gripy track, all you need to do is leave the stock tires on or set your car up with harder tires. It’s that simple. Don’t be mislead to think that a high grip track will not allow you to slide around the curves or spin donuts like the real cars. Having a grip surface in your store or club will give those with modified cars a choice to run fast and tight and will also allow those who want a more “realistic” feel, to run hard tires and slide all day long.
This way you have the best of both worlds.
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It makes sense. This is the kind of explanation that I have been waiting for a long time.
How about the experienced drivers? Do they like a high grip surface as well? Do they run on hard tires or at the end everyone goes for very soft ones?
Do you then recommend a gripy oval for newbies and ideally a second more challenging track for experts?
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2004.11.15, 05:13 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: lee, NH
Posts: 562
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I would recommend the same track for both experts and beginners. Just stack the racing heats so the beginners race with other beginners and experts race with other experts. As the beginners get better bump them up into the better heats.
The last thing beginner and novice drivers want to do is get in the way of the experts. Most of the race they just end up trying to move over and not concentrating on driving better.
__________________
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PN Team Driver
2008 PN World Champion
2008 PN Canadian Champion
2006 PN World Champion
2004 Kyosho Cup National Champion
2003 Kyosho Cup National Champion
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2004.11.15, 05:47 PM
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#25
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MINI-Z SOLDIER
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: MOTORCITY, MI
Posts: 600
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you driving style effects your tire selection also....... 2 expert drivers will have the two different setups on thier cars that translate to door to door racing on the track
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2004.11.15, 06:55 PM
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#26
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Pet Human
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary_Racer
Scalextric has some made of cardboard that might not look very nice from a close distance but might be quite nice from further distance...There was some other brand as well (Carrera or SCX, I do not remember) that has kind of the same buildings but made of plastic.
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I have a few Fly & Carrera R/C conversions in Gallery TNB as well as Scalextric tire barriers/signs/slot cars and even the pit crew with an F1. However, most of the buildings I've seen are the wrong scale. I may make a few soon since I'll be checking into a somewhat temp-to permanent place for my track tomorrow. I'm not sure how long I will get to use the place but it is close to me, is two stories, has a loft, gated parking and open parking, been refaced, has train murals on the outside, etc. It would actually make a nice little hobby shop or Z place.
wcrotty,
Bill, I'm glad we finally got to read a post from an expert Mini-Z driver and two-time national Kyosho Mini-Z-Cup champion in several classes about his view on ozite and an RCP Track. And though you didn't mention it specifically, it's my opinion that "concentrating on driving better" is more important to a new racer than decor though perhaps, not from an operator's stand point if the sole idea is to try and attract "new" customers to small-scale. Myself, why not set up a fantastic looking train set in a hobby shop to attract "new" train customers and possibly new Zrs. I've even been looking into a locomotive just to use with my layouts.
Last edited by TNB; 2004.11.15 at 06:57 PM.
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2004.11.15, 07:34 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary_Racer
I have tried several surfaces and personally I prefer the ones that give you a kind of "realistic" medium / low grip. For instance a real racecar (Nascar, F1, etc) has some level of "spinning wheels" when starting (after a pit stop, for instance). Or it is able to “make donuts”, or to slow down on a turn not because the driver cannot handle the speed but because of the intrinsic laws of physics (yes, even in wide ovals). Basically if the surface does not allow that behavior then it won’t feel real and, for my taste, less challenging. In the other hand, if your public is a casual, inexperienced driver, you might want to have a “high grip track”.
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If you want to slip and slide on RCP track all you have to do is put harder tires on. On my F1’s I run 30 rear and 40 front and I get what is realistic with a little slipping but not to much as real F1’s do not have much slipping but at take off like in the pits. With traction control on the real F1 you should not have much slipping at the start of the race or something is not set right on it. If you want more you can always go harder on the tires! I have no problem in cutting donuts and on some of my MR 01’s the tires are so hard I can hardly turn a corner with out spinning out. So with RCP you can have your cake and eat it to.
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2004.11.15, 10:26 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 207
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Great comments folks ! Thanks and keep em' coming. Has anyone ever raced on a concrete surface ?? I was approached by the owner of a local roller skating rink who heard about our needs from a fellow club member. His floor is smooth concrete but has been finished with a clear coat with some type of non skid agent added to it. I'm sure some of you have roller skated on this type of floor. Any thoughts?? What type of portable barrier / track marker system could be used ??
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2004.11.16, 10:32 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46u
If you want to slip and slide on RCP track all you have to do is put harder tires on. On my F1’s I run 30 rear and 40 front and I get what is realistic with a little slipping but not to much as real F1’s do not have much slipping but at take off like in the pits. With traction control on the real F1 you should not have much slipping at the start of the race or something is not set right on it. If you want more you can always go harder on the tires! I have no problem in cutting donuts and on some of my MR 01’s the tires are so hard I can hardly turn a corner with out spinning out. So with RCP you can have your cake and eat it to.
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Well, as I said before, it makes sense that harder tires gives you some sliding. Still, I believe, most people in a race will go for softer compounds -as in real F1- and that driving sensation won't be the same. But I understand what it is proposed.
By the way, traction control is not longer allowed at the start of a F1 race -it has to be mechanical and controlled by the driver-.
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2004.11.16, 11:59 AM
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#30
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Pet Human
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,873
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It's NEVER going to be the "same sensation" since you are driving a remote control car. Perhaps, you should try Carts/Champ Cars. I know there are driving schools here as well cart tracks, both large and small. Even some of the local Champ Car drivers drive the smaller carts. Then again, I know one of them has a Kyosho Kanai 2 buggy and got very excited when I mentioned an FG 1/5 scale F1.
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