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Old 2012.11.14, 04:38 PM   #16
Mike Keely
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When I went to the PNWC a few years ago in Myrtle Beach we all went to a steak house for dinner and Phillip picked up the check when we where finished. there was no word that he was paying before hand so I think that was a big check. My guess about 12 of us.
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Old 2012.11.14, 08:24 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by color01 View Post
The biggest difference between the Mini-Z community and other scales is pretty much driven by the lack of rewards for the winners -- with rare exception I think we're a lot more closely knit and friendly with each other because we're not racing for any reward. The one time that I did I wasn't even aware that there was a prize until the end, but there were definitely some hurt feelings from the other guys who knew about the prize. I'm not a fan of those hurt feelings, and I don't think they would've surfaced had the race been a no-prize-just-bragging-rights one. My suspicion is that without the carrot at the end of the stick, the proportion of folks willing to race Mini-Z will always be small, but they'll be the ones who don't care about the cost/benefit equation, and stick around just for the fun of it.
I have to disagree as I know PN drivers get rewarded parts allowance when they finish on the podium. Although I have seen one PN driver donate his contingency to a kid, which I thought was awesome!
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Old 2012.11.14, 09:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tjay View Post

1st or last, you meet new friends. Even just watching the race but that's just not the only reason why we spend big bucks and pls don't tell me that you go out and pay $1000 for the ticket/hotel to meet new friends...
fun tj ... fun!
meeting new people and making new friends is the BONUS!
I do this cause i love it.... i enjoy the competition the people the racing all of the good and bad! and i like the fact that my driving ability is starting to improve so that i can compete with the best mini-z drivers in the WORLD!


i too thought that when i won a world title i would get bored and move on to another hobby.... boy was i wrong.... it made me hungrier to race the next one...
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Old 2012.11.14, 09:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ARN View Post
ok, help me understand.

I want names specific to each question.

I would like to know who paid and provided the timing system & PC hardware.
PN supplied the Giro-Z, 80% of the drivers preferred the Ilap system
I would like to know who provided the track and who set it up. Including details of the arrangement in getting the space to hold the event in the mall.
ILR broke down their track and brought it down to the event location
I would like to know who prepared and organized the heats & mains.
PN prepared the heats and mains, due to Giro-Z confusing trophies were awarded to the wrong people
I would like to know who provided spec motors, and cost to the racer of each motor.
I would like to know who pays for web sites and design for you and I to follow the event....
And the drivers stand, where did that come from? what was the cost?
Rented and ILR covered cost, I also contributed to the ramp and a local racer put the ramp together
who provided the sound system? who announced, was he paid?
Sound system was rented, Binh (owner of ILR) announced
who shipped and hauled all of what I listed? was there a trailer for this stuff? how much did that cost?
Participants of the race (mainly local racers) helped take the tables down and stack everything
Was there any banners? who paid for them?
I guess that's all that come to mind for now....

does your name pop up on any of these questions? I was not there so please fill me in....
Yes my name does pop up
Aside from all your questions, you have taken my statement completely off track.

My statement says "Ken and Grant do a great job with supporting PN and helping fellow racers, but they can only do so much when the owner himself isn't willing to give back to the community. " there had been a misunderstanding, I've spoken to Philip regarding a defect in his product, and a few other locals have been having the same problem. He would simply blame it on user error and brush me away, maybe that is not what he meant to do but that's how it came off to me.

I have also came up to Philip regarding the "live lap tracker" and he simply said that I had the wrong version Android firmware and brushed me off, which I in fact keep updated every time it warns me there is an update to install. Again maybe thats not how he meant to have approached the problem, but it seems like he didn't care much of helping. I would have assumed he would be the most willing to help or at least direct me to the right person to talk to if he doesn't have the time to help himself.
Instead of just physically turning his back to me.

Chad508: I am not saying that I wasn't getting any help from the racers, in fact Grant took the time to sit down with me and my car to help me figure things out to getting it to work properly. I am sure Chad Nelson and the PN sponsored drivers were more than willing to help me with my car or tuning help. But my problem was that Philip wasn't willing to hear me out about product defects and would just simply blame me for doing things wrong.

Not everyone is asking for money prizes or free tickets to Paris, but maybe something for the winners of each class? Could be simply an offer of the newest part for their car class, GT, Pan, F1.
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Old 2012.11.14, 10:30 PM   #20
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i here all this and i couldnt disagree more. i hope money never finds its way into this scale of racing. i have seen to many larger scale races end up in fist fights because someone punted someone and caused them a $50 prize. the fact that this racing is all for fun and bragging rights is what keeps me in it. I spent $1300-$1500 this past weekend to go to the worlds and yes the trophies are nice but honestly i spent the money to be around people that enjoy the same hobby i do. i put faces to forum names and made a lot friends. to me that is why i race these cars. if i was in it for money i would look into larger scales, but the drama that goes with those classes is not worth it to me.

as for not having support from the manufactures i couldnt disagree more. i race and promote for reflex but not once did any of the pn guys not help me if i asked. everyone is more than willing to help if you ask. i was the only reflex team driver at the worlds this year and i didnt have team members to ask advice from. but every time i asked anyone anything they were more than willing to help out and make my race experience the best it could be. and thats what i like about this scale of racing. everyone wants everyone to get better, if not you will eventually run out of competition.

thats my 2 cents
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Old 2012.11.14, 10:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Tjay View Post
I had to post this because others can but wont, so let me be that guy and I'm cool with that... I'd like to thank you guys for sharing your opinions. Others needs to see these kinds of input.

Back in January 2008, my first real race, Atomic had an event (West Coast Regonals) and during this time, Atomic had more parts on the shelves than PN. The 1st place winners on both mod (AWD and 2WD) gets a plane ticket to Hong Kong. Let me repeat that, a plane ticket to HONG KONG. A year later, they gave out the same prizes, plane tickets to HK. I understand the economy is tough but that didn't stop the racers/drivers into supporting fully on PN parts especially here in US. They may have not spend as much as they did before, but they were spending money and going to their Regionals.

Every big event race I go to has raffle draws that are sponsored by KO, Kyosho, etc... Why not have few of those parts such as: module or even board be given to the 1st place winner? Do you guys know how cheap these boards are? I understand the reason for raffle draws (give the chance for everyone to win something) but there should be some kind of incentives for winning a WORLD TITLE.

1st or last, you meet new friends. Even just watching the race but that's just not the only reason why we spend big bucks and pls don't tell me that you go out and pay $1000 for the ticket/hotel to meet new friends...
i will discuss with PN Racing this coming week... i will suggest that the PNWC go to PN RACING AND KYOSHO PARTS ONLY... and offer airfare to the PNWC FINALS in paris france for 2 select regional races... east and west
WINNERS from select classes that have more than a minimum amount of drivers
i will push to make PANCAR MOD one of theses classes
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Old 2012.11.14, 10:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by chad508 View Post
i here all this and i couldnt disagree more. i hope money never finds its way into this scale of racing. i have seen to many larger scale races end up in fist fights because someone punted someone and caused them a $50 prize. the fact that this racing is all for fun and bragging rights is what keeps me in it. I spent $1300-$1500 this past weekend to go to the worlds and yes the trophies are nice but honestly i spent the money to be around people that enjoy the same hobby i do. i put faces to forum names and made a lot friends. to me that is why i race these cars. if i was in it for money i would look into larger scales, but the drama that goes with those classes is not worth it to me.

as for not having support from the manufactures i couldnt disagree more. i race and promote for reflex but not once did any of the pn guys not help me if i asked. everyone is more than willing to help if you ask. i was the only reflex team driver at the worlds this year and i didnt have team members to ask advice from. but every time i asked anyone anything they were more than willing to help out and make my race experience the best it could be. and thats what i like about this scale of racing. everyone wants everyone to get better, if not you will eventually run out of competition.

thats my 2 cents
great to race with you this past weekend chad!
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Old 2012.11.14, 11:09 PM   #23
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You're going to make Stephen dump his Atomic car? That, is just cruel lol.

The biggest difference between the Mini-Z community and other scales is pretty much driven by the lack of rewards for the winners -- with rare exception I think we're a lot more closely knit and friendly with each other because we're not racing for any reward. The one time that I did I wasn't even aware that there was a prize until the end, but there were definitely some hurt feelings from the other guys who knew about the prize. I'm not a fan of those hurt feelings, and I don't think they would've surfaced had the race been a no-prize-just-bragging-rights one. My suspicion is that without the carrot at the end of the stick, the proportion of folks willing to race Mini-Z will always be small, but they'll be the ones who don't care about the cost/benefit equation, and stick around just for the fun of it.

RE Ray's earlier comment, I also agree that too much focus has been put on pure racing performance as the years have gone by, and while it is this site's namesake, it's not as fun anymore because we've been leaving out a whole other side of the hobby that is NOT racing. Builds like Faze's FC3S used to be very common and I lament that we have no way currently of rewarding cars like those, as we used to here on these forums and elsewhere. But that's a topic to be discussed elsewhere.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chad508 View Post
i here all this and i couldnt disagree more. i hope money never finds its way into this scale of racing. i have seen to many larger scale races end up in fist fights because someone punted someone and caused them a $50 prize. the fact that this racing is all for fun and bragging rights is what keeps me in it. I spent $1300-$1500 this past weekend to go to the worlds and yes the trophies are nice but honestly i spent the money to be around people that enjoy the same hobby i do. i put faces to forum names and made a lot friends. to me that is why i race these cars. if i was in it for money i would look into larger scales, but the drama that goes with those classes is not worth it to me.

as for not having support from the manufactures i couldnt disagree more. i race and promote for reflex but not once did any of the pn guys not help me if i asked. everyone is more than willing to help if you ask. i was the only reflex team driver at the worlds this year and i didnt have team members to ask advice from. but every time i asked anyone anything they were more than willing to help out and make my race experience the best it could be. and thats what i like about this scale of racing. everyone wants everyone to get better, if not you will eventually run out of competition.

thats my 2 cents
Should've never given you those Kyosho 30 front slicks. Great job fighting the glitch man, I was hoping to give you a run for your money but clearly I need to improve on my "f--- you F1, just drive!" skills.
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Last edited by color01; 2012.11.14 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 2012.11.14, 11:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by yasuji View Post
i will discuss with PN Racing this coming week... i will suggest that the PNWC go to PN RACING AND KYOSHO PARTS ONLY
looks like i gotta cancle my plans for paris =( Oh well one world title is enough for me.
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Old 2012.11.14, 11:50 PM   #25
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great to race with you this past weekend chad!
Thanks grant. I don't know how much we actually got to race each other but those couple laps I got to follow was fun. 😃 maybe next time i will have something for ya
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Old 2012.11.15, 06:58 AM   #26
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...RE Ray's earlier comment, I also agree that too much focus has been put on pure racing performance as the years have gone by, and while it is this site's namesake, it's not as fun anymore because we've been leaving out a whole other side of the hobby that is NOT racing. Builds like Faze's FC3S used to be very common and I lament that we have no way currently of rewarding cars like those, as we used to here on these forums and elsewhere. But that's a topic to be discussed elsewhere.....
feel free to email me with ideas or suggestions, i'm always looking for ways to bring encourage the 'fun' side to this hobby. i've sponsored many contests with prizes myself over the years and don't mind doing so.
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Old 2012.11.15, 07:43 AM   #27
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My$0.02

Perhaps to put things into a bit of perspective: The Canadian rally championship (1:1) has a prize money purse of exactly $0. There is some manufacturer contingency money but it's a tiny percent of what people pay to race.

The top teams (most private with little to no sponsorship) spend close to one hundred thousand dollars per year to race in a series with no prize money.

Nobody is forced to travel and compete in these events unless they have sponsor obligations already, which likely means that they aren't terribly concerned with the costs to run a race, it assumed that there is some out-of pocket expense to do what you love. If someone gets something out of it other than personal enjoyment, great. But if they go into it with the mindset of getting free stuff or cash, perhaps their priorities should be re-evaluated.
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Old 2012.11.15, 08:03 AM   #28
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...Nobody is forced to travel and compete in these events unless they have sponsor obligations already, which likely means that they aren't terribly concerned with the costs to run a race, it assumed that there is some out-of pocket expense to do what you love. If someone gets something out of it other than personal enjoyment, great. But if they go into it with the mindset of getting free stuff or cash, perhaps their priorities should be re-evaluated.
wait for it...wait for it... and there it is free stuff is always a plus/bonus which is why the raffle portion of events are so popular. it's always exciting and many times just as much of a fun event as the event itself if you have the right crowd. i've never attended an event for 'stuff' though. i'd trade all my prizes i've won to have another event where i get to watch ed and PA gang repair a chassis with a lighter and a glue stick with nascar pitcrew like speed that was priceless in my book. the experiences i've had meeting other racers is far more valuable than any prize.
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Old 2012.11.15, 09:04 AM   #29
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I would not agree with any philosophy that limits the parts that can be used to a specific manufacturer and then proclaim and crown a World champion. Don't go out of context here. I admire Philip for his effort in creating a platform that we all can compete from even though it is kind of "the Mouse that roared". Atomic as well. Same deal. Reflex too.

For growth. Real money in the drawer growth there has to be a format where all the manufacturer's support the hobby but stay back from the sanctioning end of it. Then when there is a "World Class" event factory and independant teams can compete heads up to see which manufacturer and individual is really worthy of the term "World Champion". Competition will foster improvments in the product and parts that we all spend far too much money on.

Until something along these lines happens we are and will be relegated to what we have from who ever we get it from. Crabbing about it does nothing but dilute the effort that we all put in. Regardless of that amount. If you don't like the prize then don't compete for it. You know darn dood and well that it is only of importance if you don't win it. Wait til something better comes along. If you fill out the entry form then you are bound to compete by the written rules governing that event. It doesn't matter if you agree with them or not. You chose to be there. Make the best of it.

In most forms of Motorsports the racer's pay the promoter for the right to amuse the spectators. They are there for the competition and comraderie. Little else.

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Old 2012.11.15, 10:13 AM   #30
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Aside from all your questions, you have taken my statement completely off track.
I don't take to bashing Philip lightly.

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