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Old 2005.12.18, 07:44 AM   #1
ccson
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Follow-up to Dec 17 GTG

As always, I enjoyed the racing and the pit chatter.

Is it just me, or is everyone else getter faster?

As I am still learning how to race, I was wondering if we could discuss the rules and etiquette of racing during the next GTG. I have received some helpful comments here and there but I would like to get a better overall understanding. Maybe someone could recommend a good article.

The Atomic Stock motor Ken recommended has been a great motor with smooth power. Can anyone recommend a motor with more speed that is still manageable?

I am still struggling to drive the Fetted Enzo. I am wondering if I should go back to stock Fets and add a better motor.

Happy holidays to you guys. See you next time.
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Old 2005.12.18, 12:38 PM   #2
arch2b
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here is a good articale on passing techniques
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Old 2005.12.18, 04:43 PM   #3
Spoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
here is a good articale on passing techniques
You know Arch...I have read that article. It gives some good tips but I don't know that I would actually be able to pull of one of those techniques in the 0.5 seconds it takes to pass someone. Maybe we could have a pass practice session where we just work on the different types of passes.

ccson,

I think that's a great topic for discussion. I don't think I have seen anything in these boards about race etiquette. Does anyone have any input? ccson, what types of things have you heard?

I know some people say "rubbing is racing" I think that is somewhat true but it can go too far obviously.

One thing that racers were big on at Stampys was...

Do not back up in front of other racers if you hit a wall. Basically, wait until the track is clear before backing up.


Does anyone else have anything to share about racing etiquette?
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Old 2005.12.18, 04:52 PM   #4
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I would like to add that when you complete a 5 sec avg lap time it's hard to have any kind of etiquette. You slow to let traffic pass or even bump the wall and you could end up a lap behind. Even worse a couple laps. The one thing I think people need to focus on the most is just sitting still and letting traffic pass. Another way of controlling that is placing drivers in classes. If you are prone to hitting the walls then you should be in a slower class where everyone is skilled the same. In a case of just 4-6 well you don't have that option so the best thing to do is practice getting better rather than try to beat the guys you race with. Most of all just have fun!

-Byebye
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Old 2005.12.18, 05:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byebye
I would like to add that when you complete a 5 sec avg lap time it's hard to have any kind of etiquette. You slow to let traffic pass or even bump the wall and you could end up a lap behind. Even worse a couple laps. The one thing I think people need to focus on the most is just sitting still and letting traffic pass. Another way of controlling that is placing drivers in classes. If you are prone to hitting the walls then you should be in a slower class where everyone is skilled the same. In a case of just 4-6 well you don't have that option so the best thing to do is practice getting better rather than try to beat the guys you race with. Most of all just have fun!

-Byebye

I'll agree with that ByeBye. Maybe not even sitting still but being somewhat predictable and maybe just letting the car coast.

I typically let of the throttle a little as I pass (or when I am in traffic) because I usually end up in a lot better place if I bump someone.

Sometimes you gotta take a chance and punch it through the traffic, but you take the chance of getting really screwed if you hit another car.
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Old 2005.12.18, 05:21 PM   #6
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we should start a new thread for this

there has been much discussion on the matter in the mini-z cup threads form years past.

good trechiques are hard to pull off. basically those with good to advanced skills will do these almost naturally where as newbies to good focus primarily on getting around the track and secondly on the car next to them.

i do not believe in bash racing unless its a class specifically for that, something like the cup cars or overlands which tend to involve more contact which is still not menevolent in nature but par for the course.

does bashing occur? sure. anytime you get 3-8 cars on a track there are going to be some hits no matter how good you are.

i agree on not reversing into oncoming traffic but i can honestly say it's a hard lesson to teach to a 5 yr old and as byebye mentioned, when your working with 5 sec. laps, sitting out while the pack runs by will certainly cost you a lap if not more. i do think it's possible to jump back in without causing a pileup but it obviously takes some forthought and attention to the surroundings which leads to my next thought....

another thing that is difficult to teach/learn is situational awareness. i personally have a hard time concentrating on keeping a good line AND the 1-2 foot buffer zone around my car. should i, absolutely but can i always pull it off, no i've t boned a few cars stuck at the wall at the end of a straight which should not happen but it's another skill set to learn and i like to think i'm getting better.

grouping by skill level only works when you have a large group. for example, we have 3-8 typ. and only 2-3 would fall in the newbie-good slot (me being one of them). that would make for a slow night segregating us. not to mention the best learning tool in my opinion is to run with the more advanced guys. i have only been able to reach my present skill level by following chucky and byebye for all those gtg's before many other advanced guys joined the group.

another thing that will change is the enviroment. my club, if you can call it that, was founded on 'family fun' and has always been about including everyone. this means young'ins that are basically roving road blocks and crash magnets. my only suggestions in this circumstance is that if really bothers anyone, to sit those races out. best to wait it out than get offended or upset when you find an enzo coming at you in full reverse as your coming out of a fast turn trust me, it happens. i applaud all the guys that come out to run on my track for the couresty they show in willingly running when my son has his car out on the track. right now he see's all the guys racing and all he wants to do is be like us only he has neither the experience or talent at this point. in a few years he will either pick it up and get much better (which has has done very well in the last year or so) or gradually loose interest and go off to other things (which i naturally don't want to see happen as i thoroughly enjoy sharing the hobby with my son).

i hope no one was offended by anything that may have happened on my track
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Old 2005.12.18, 06:33 PM   #7
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arch2b can vouch for how much I bump and run. It' never on purpose either, it just happens that way. I really could never perfect passing. The only real way I could get around was to put pressure on the person in front and pass when they make a mistake.

It will take track time to learn to control your patience and let the guy in front make the mistake.

-Byebye
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Old 2005.12.18, 09:50 PM   #8
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I have definitely T-boned my share of fellow racers...never on purpose.

I tend to think that I get a little aggressive but I hope it never goes over the top. If I do, any of you guys should feel free to tell me to back off.

Arch,

That's a good point on keeping the buffer. Avoiding "tunnel vision" will keep you out of some trouble.

For the record, I have had nothing but fun on your track. (All 2 times that I have been there)

Maybe we should split this out into another thread. Are there any other suggestions that people have for etiquitte or driving skill? Grouping racers is a good idea but I think that's more of an "organizational" suggestion than an etiquitte/skill improvement subject, and, as Arch pointed out, sometimes not possible or maybe just not fun.
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Old 2005.12.18, 10:19 PM   #9
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new thread created....

i never take offense to getting hit. i have my son to contend with so everything else seems less drastic by comparison.

every gtg i am amazed at some of the talent that you guys have just last night i got the chance to watch a couple races with ken, todd, chucky and sanford (everyone who stayed late). they are able to pick and change lines at a level i don't think i'll ever reach. just as byebye described, i could see how they keep up the pressure on the leader and pounce on the slightest opportunity such as taking a line wide, slowing a bit too much going into a turn, etc. to change positions. to me it's like getting a first class mini-z racing education for free, all i had to do was supply the track

btw, when i mentioned names it's not to single anyone out. just about all of the guys who come are top notch. myself and soyverde are admitted lesser talents when it comes to the skills of ken, todd, sanford, ryan, james and chucky, etc. etc.

soyv did improve his hfay time by about 30 sec.'s though
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Old 2005.12.18, 10:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon
...Arch,

That's a good point on keeping the buffer. Avoiding "tunnel vision" will keep you out of some trouble......
i know you guys have said this many times, wining is about avoiding accidents as much as it is about being fast. it's about consistent and clean laps inorder to keep the pace fast.
for those of us who don't have the intstinctual skills yet, avoiding tunnel vision is not always easy. that and throttle restraint are my biggest areas that need improvement.

when chucky and byebye brought the kids with them, it would have been feasible to have kids heats where willing grown ups could run as well. when it's just my son, it's hard to tell him he has to wait all day for a couple chances to race with a few of us who dare. the only thing that keeps him off the track for the most part are breakdowns with his cars. it's somewhat of a challenge to host a gtg, wrench on my car, race, wrench on my sons car and keep it all going. i try to sit a few races out to let myself catch up but then i have to contend with taking my share of time with the baby. it's not easy racing while holding a baby but i think i've got it down pretty good. until he starts grabbing the antenna anyway
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Old 2005.12.19, 12:08 PM   #11
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Sounds like growing pains to me... here's a few tips.

Get used to getting bashed.

Get used to having newbies pull out in front of you.

Get used to seeing parts of your vehicle fly off in new and interesting directions !

And most of all... get used to all of this happening somewhere around the last lap of a 10 minute main, in such a fashion that you lose valuable position, or end up DNF !!!

Once you get used to all of these things... 1/28th scale becomes easier to tolerate !

It's the most technical RC racing out there, you have to always be on your toes to really do "well" with it ! Accidents will happen. It's all part of the fun ! In time, driver courtesy will come natural for all. Courteous drivers are faster drivers (proven fact up here) !

Good luck guys !
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Old 2005.12.19, 01:37 PM   #12
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I could not have said it better. That is excactly the approach needed. Once that is achevied the rest of it all gets better with time and practice. And once it does get better with time and practice you,ll have some more new racers and it starts all over again. Beauty of is we,re not busting up 100.00 of dollars worth of cars when it happens and it don,t take hours to repair or maintain like larger scales.
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Old 2005.12.19, 02:13 PM   #13
briankstan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
here is a good articale on passing techniques
That is a great article, I printed and passed it out to all of our guys. Though in race circumstances it's very hard to follow. somtimes the pace is just to fast.

I thing the best way to avoid the collisions with people backing up into on comming traffic, is to expect it. You should be looking for wrecks ahead of you and be defensive when approaching. After all the person that wrecked or what ever wants to get going again without giving up any more ground then he has to. This is especially true with the new racers, those that are faster and better drivers know that they can make up the ground. With newer racers it's not so easy and they want to finish the best the possible can.

Basicly the better driver you become the less you will be involved in these type of situations. (notice I said less) You will always have some to deal with.

Brian
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Old 2005.12.19, 02:42 PM   #14
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Hmmm...
Master always say...

Thinking elephant thoughts at hummingbird pace may drive you batty !!!

Great article !

It's all mental... it's clearly evident when you're running the time trials, and someone distracts you for a split second, and you hit a wall. Gotta get those Delta waves pumping in the brain... use the force ! Clear your mind, don't get out of your rhythm, if someone hits your car, make it PART of your rhythm.. got it ? Do not flow like water, be the water !

(Sorry... I have a Tai-Chi guru in my club, we discuss this all the time ! )
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Old 2005.12.19, 03:00 PM   #15
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i race at a track in staten island, called action rc speedway, www.actionrcspeedway.com
and the owner, Al, has 3 tile wide lane width in his track so it helps out a lot with passing. there of course are some people who still bump and run but we usually really bug those people till they learn how to have courtesy.
-Courtesy is such a huge part of passing because if you take the inside on someone and then they decide to not switch their line and hit you instead then the attempt at a pass actually puts you down in the rankings because other people pass you because you just spun out! Generally, we try to encourage newbies to take the outside line and let people pass if they are running faster than them.
-i will tell you that i have noticed some friendly courtesy in racing but also i have noticed some certain people not showing courtesy to some people possibly because they don't like them...which is pretty obvious if in a certain race that person is more than a few laps down!
-imxlr8ed you couldn't of said it better about courteous drivers being faster generally because at the track i goto people mess themselves up more often than none if they haphazardly try to pass someone or block someone's pass!
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