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Old 2020.02.20, 08:12 PM   #16
EMU
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My opinion may differ from others, but outside of a box stock spec class, I view stock as a motor/battery restriction. EVO electronics from kyosho are excellent, and I believe them to be the best performing electronics on AAA cells. The power delivery on the low end cannot be replicated by any aftermarket brushless ESC that I have seen.

What makes it difficult, is that racers come into the hobby from many alternate avenues. Many involved in the hobby in different scales wanting to use their existing equipment, and many new hobbyists with little to no experience in the hobby looking for the path of least resistance to find performance. Often, both are clumped into the same category with kyosho options, new radio and new car... kyosho has offered more options with the EVO, but the majority still requires a new transmitter to use. Sanwa is the most used radio in larger scales. Many old time large scale racers also use Spektrum. Kyosho has no option for them, and PN only has a brushed option for spektrum.

In the process of establishing rules, and trying to be as inclusive as possible, we had long debates on how to structure the stock (70 comp) class. We are still evaluating options, trying to see how the class can evolve and become as inclusive as it can be. 2S lipo with 2500kv has been tested pretty thoroughly by myself and a few others, and while it can be a head to head competitor with the v3 3500 on AAA, it is currently not appropriate to race with 3500kv motors on AAA.

Stock classes always will be a hot topic, as it is the one most effected by even minute difference of performance. My opinion is that the bar must be set by the existing AAA brushed tech, which is still sold and raced by many, and met but not exceeded by its competition filtering into the class.

So long as electronics do not provide a distinctive performance advantage over the Kyosho offering, which I currently do not feel that they do, it should be an open playing field to allow as much inclusion into the stock class, outside of box stock classes which should remain kit electronics for parity.
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Old 2020.02.21, 07:54 AM   #17
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To respond to an earlier comment on proclivity for a ‘Stock’ class, they are typically found in programs at retail stores and for obvious reasons so not surprising that those outside retail environment do not have similar ‘Stock’ class. I’m sure if there was enough demand for it, it would be there but again, not much of a class if there are only 3-4 people participating in such locations so it’s understandable why it doesn’t exist. In our particular region, there is a mix of both retail locations and private locations so you would typically find people running ‘Stock’ at the retail locations and not at the private locations. Each club will have it’s own needs and character so not realistic to believe all would carry the same classes.

Take a look at the RVA group class/rules at their retail location for example. Very strict, simple rules and it works for them. I’m sure many of them that want other flavors simply participate in other classes elsewhere, such as NC or MT. By comparison for example, our (Washington DC) ‘Stock’ class is slightly relaxed and not true ‘box’ stock which is why it’s called ’Kyosho Stock’. That was very intentional so as not to confuse with ’Box Stock’ and reiterate that the Kyosho chassis (vs. electronics for future adaptability) is the foundation for the class vs. Super Stock at Remnant. RVA runs ‘Box Stock’ and slightly less box stock but not quite ’Super Stock’.
Move to Remnant, a couple hours away and their stock class (Super Stock) is much different ‘Box’ or even ’Kyosho’ and only marginally different from HFAY. Murdertown is very similar to Remnant in that stock is more HFAY like. HFAY=70 Comp.
Different environments have differing needs, culture and style.

Back to topic, EMU describes the same/similar points I’ve made with regards to feasible, effective management of open electronics in a ‘Stock’ class. At a macro level, it already is happening within the Kyosho eco system when you permit any and all of the available Kyosho systems vs. forcing all to use a single system. Personally that notion scares me as a Kyosho consumer as they are all over the place with systems and could result in pushing a lot of people to constantly migrate entirely to new systems every time they release a new flavor to their menu. To clarify, this discussion does not include ‘Box Stock’ as that interpretation is fairly self explanatory.
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Old 2020.02.24, 11:47 PM   #18
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When we developed the 70 comp rule set, we wanted to be as inclusive as we could be. Taking the HFAY structure at its base, but removing chassis and electronics limitations. The idea which we had was to not need to write the rules again when a new company would enter the market. This was an inspiration from larger scales where the limitations of the classes are power source, motor, body and tire.

Due to the location of murdertown at the crossroads of the northeast club's, we felt it necessary to be as accommodating as possible to anyone racing the scale wanting to come join. There are plenty basement racers out there who don't necessarily race at big club events, and may have aftermarket electronics on their mini's because they use them for practice for larger scales.

Kyosho has really been confusing with their electronics packages, continuing their multi tier system of entry level and pro level platforms (FHSS vs EVO). The FHSS electronics will get the job done, but are really only lower stock level performance packages. Meaning, box stock/kyosho stock expectations. In an open stock environment like 70 comp, they do start to lag behind slightly, and are better kept racing in restricted classes which the EVO or open electronics are not permitted. With a FET stack, could they compete with the EVO? I am a little sceptical, as I feel that there is more restriction in power delivery on those electronics than just their FET package, however upgraded FETs would give a more equal footing to the EVO.

On the data sheets, the EVO has better FETs than the 8858CZ, which is the strongest commercial fet of its package available. Unsure what the actual fet data is of the PN Aborrent Nabs fet which they sell, since I have been unable to find any data on that FET. The EVO FET is not commercially available, so the closest option is the 8858 which has equal amperage ratings, but the EVO fet has a lower resistance.

My opinion is that upgrading the FET by replacing the original with 8858 fets is putting it on equal footing to the EVO, as long as at a maximum 2 fets are used per wire.
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