2008.03.03, 03:57 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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smooth ball diff rebuild... how?
Ok, I have been running my awd for almost a month now and have gone through 2 sets of atomic plastic ball diffs. On Saturday afternoon, my car was running great and at night the rear end started spinning out and car's traction rolling on the sweeper.
Last night I noticed my rear atm plastic dif was locking up. Only when you're pushing the car with your finger (keep in mind the pinion is not there). The right rear locks up and it feels like it's snapping. I checked the swing-shaft, spur gear, knuckles and bearing and they're all in good condition. Visually, I can't see anything wrong with the diff but trying to hand spin the diff it feels gritty and locks up half way through. I have tried rebuilding some of my atm plastic diffs and after you open them and put them together they don't feel as smooth anymore.
I don't want to keep buying new atm diffs. So, is there any way to rebuild this diff and still keep it's smoothness? Maybe invest into ceramic and thrust bearing? I don't mind investing into kyosho diffs if they'll last longer.
Please advice.
thx!
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2008.03.03, 04:08 PM
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#2
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4play
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Reflex Racing, everywhere
Posts: 2,602
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Tjay - chances are the issue is in the thrust bearing. Try the Atomic flat thrust bearing. I'm also working on a conversion using Kyosho ball diff guts including their thrust bearing. Aside from that, use the standard diff building techniques like sanding the rings. Also based on your description of the problem, the issue may not be with the diff internals, but the diff gear.
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2008.03.03, 04:55 PM
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#3
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EMUracing
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
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Using the upgrade flat thrust bearing makes a big difference. Since the pressure is loaded from the side of the bearing, the standard ball bearing is not really designed for that type of pressure. Made my diff much smoother.
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EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
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2008.03.03, 05:01 PM
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#4
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4play
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Reflex Racing, everywhere
Posts: 2,602
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There is a quick way to tell whether the grit is in your thrust bearing:
1) Rotate both sides of the diff with both hands to get a feel for the level of wear/roughness.
2) Apply sideways pressure to diff halves (you can do this with the diff installed on the MR-02, but you'll have to remove it for AWD). This unloads the thrust bearing so all you are feeling is the rings/balls.
3) Keep applying pressure and rotate both sides of the diff. Try and feel if the diff feels better/smoother or just as rough.
Chances are that the diff feels perfectly smooth in #3. This means that your rings and balls are fine, but your thrust bearing is shot. If the diff is still crunchy in #3, then your rings and balls are the culprit, and you probably just need to resurface your rings - especially if you are using ceramic balls. If it's kind of halfway better in #3, then rings, balls, and thrust bearing are worn out.
BTW, a quick trick for trackside rebuilds when you don't have access to another conventional bearing is to flip it. The races are only worn on one set of opposite sides, so there SHOULD be a fresh set of races under pressure if you reinstall it the other way around. Should buy you a little more time unless the bearing is just completely shot.
Last edited by ruf; 2008.03.03 at 05:24 PM.
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2008.03.03, 05:19 PM
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#5
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at the Bleeding Edge
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: england
Posts: 1,724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruf
BTW, a quick trick for trackside rebuilds when you don't have access to another conventional bearing is to flip it. The races are only worn on one (opposite) side, so there SHOULD be a fresh set of races under pressure if you reinstall it the other way around. Should buy you a little more time unless the bearing is just completely shot.
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^very good tip!!^
the ceramic balls do make a big difference,ive had my atm plastic diffs in for half a year now with no probs,just the adjusting nut wearing a little from stripping the diff all the time lol
the holes in the new thrust bearings are a little too big allowing the diff gear to move up and down,its ok whilst running just something to watch out for when you build them up
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2008.03.03, 05:34 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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Thanks for the tip guys!
Still too new to AWD . I haven't seen how a thrust bearing looks like... I'll look at it later on at the shop and see how this thing works. For the mean time, I'll do all that testing and then change the standard balls to ceramic.
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2008.03.03, 05:44 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjay
Thanks for the tip guys!
Still too new to AWD . I haven't seen how a thrust bearing looks like... I'll look at it later on at the shop and see how this thing works. For the mean time, I'll do all that testing and then change the standard balls to ceramic.
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Just did some research and found out mine suppose to come with thrust bearing... I'll have to check it.
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2008.03.07, 03:01 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
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can i know how tight should i screw the ATM ball diff together when i reassemble the diff? Should i tighthen the diff completly then slowly adjust later or other wise?
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2008.03.07, 11:27 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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what I usually do, is to tighten it all the way then back off 1/2 a turn. It seems a lot but put the car on the track and check to see if the diff slips by going in full reverse then full throttle. I have mine to were it slips a little. Others may have different way of doing it.
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2008.03.07, 11:28 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjay
Just did some research and found out mine suppose to come with thrust bearing... I'll have to check it.
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update: mine don't come with thrust bearing. I have to get that tonight.
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2008.03.07, 12:00 PM
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#11
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Left Foot Braker
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bombay, India
Posts: 208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjay
put the car on the track and check to see if the diff slips by going in full reverse then full throttle.
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Won't the drivetrain be severely damaged by doing that?
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Traction is a double edged sword; master it and you can cut God
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2008.03.07, 12:12 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
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it will slip... if it was a solid axle, gear diff, super glued pinion shaft and super glued spur. Yes, it will.
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2008.03.07, 12:56 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 62
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On a side note, I wish all the diff have measurement markings printed on them, so you know exactly how tight it is, and how much it has loosen since your last adjustments.
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2008.03.07, 01:35 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 218
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this is so weird, i had the same problem with my stock gear diff after 4 months. I took it apart and put it back together and still nothing. I guess this happens every now and then, thought i was the only one to experience the problem.
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2008.03.07, 02:02 PM
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#15
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4play
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Reflex Racing, everywhere
Posts: 2,602
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I just tighten by hand/feel. After you've done a few of these, you'll get an idea of how tight they need to be. You want to BARELY be able to slip the diff gear while holding both sides. In fact, I do this to help seat the balls in freshly prepped rings. Then work the diff action again and retighten since it usually loosens up a little.
simalive - you could easily use a paint pen to make witness marks, but it wouldn't really help much. Most of the time, diffs "loosen" due to the balls and rings etc. breaking in, NOT from the adjustment nut backing out. You could mark your adjustments, but they wouldn't move (esp if you use loctite), and there's no way to mark the internal wear that's causing the diff to loosen.
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