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Old 2010.09.17, 01:11 PM   #1
hrdrvr
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Carolina Cup Challenge - 2011

So with the last event of the year on the way, and both series championships hanging in the balance the new season is getting a lot of attention I like all the discussion, and I think it is important to ensure a strong series for next year.

I am going to open up this thread for discussion by all, but please know that when you post your thoughts here, that does not mean that your will necessarily become reality. I;m willing to listen to every ones opinions, but I know that every one will not agree, and only a small few will make the final decisions.

Here is the discussion that has taken place so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicsoul View Post
I think we should pick classes out of a hat for the next CC series. Randomly select classes at the end of each race with the stipulation that we always run stock and that the remainding two classes be different body styles from each other.

I think it would be interesting to run a spec 02 class as well, 90mm or something. It would give every body something to do with their old gear at the very least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdrvr View Post
I got rid of my 02 stuff, but I'd be cool with a 90mm class, porshce class, mini class, hatch class, RM only, whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Rabbit View Post
Jay,
I like the idea about drawing the two extra classes out of a hat for the next CCC Race after every race for next year also. That way no one feels slighted or favored. We can know ahead of time and not have to wait for a decission right before the next race. Great idea.
How about a Novice (beginers) or a kids class? Because of time restrants maybe with minimum qualifiers and main times.
And Mike if you were not racing so well, maybe in the near future we could have enough to have a seniors class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrocamp View Post
Good idea Jay, maybe we should set up a draw at CC4.

We could do a kid's class, especially if Lincoln and Tyler are racing. Anybody seen Robbie lately? It wouldn't add too much time since we are substituting it for a D heat for example anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Rabbit View Post
Pedro,
I agree, we should draw at CC4 for the classes at the first race of next years challenge. With stock gt being in all races.
Now to figure what classes will be in the hat for drawing, that may be the long discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU View Post
Maybe everyone that participated at the event, could write two classes (from the choices selected at the beginning of the season) on seperate pieces of paper... then two papers are drawn, and if they are duplicates, then they draw another. This way, everyone feels that while it is random, their vote is in...

Either case, Im all for GT always being run. And I do like the randomness of the class choice by drawing from a hat. Also, you will know at the end of the previous race what setups to work on for the next event...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrocamp View Post
That's a good idea Emu, adds a bit individual involvement with the process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrdrvr View Post
I like it. Its like a randomized majority rules
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicsoul View Post
I think that is a good idea as well, the only problem would be if 2 Formula one classes where chosen it would be difficult for most to run both classes.

Maybe the other two classes should be mod only, eliminating stock classes altogether as choices in order to avoid a situation where we end up having to provide 3 hand out motors to each participant.

As much as I would like to see 90mm or mini-class I don't think it should be for points and included in the 3 classes,as participation will probably be minimal. I for one am in for any class, the more the merrier for me. I remember running 5 classes at the Turkey day run and I had a stinking blast!

Maybe we squeeze a mini-class in during a break or breaks 2 four minute quals and an 8 minute main just for kicks for those who are willing to paricipate. It would be cool to see a specific body picked TRP's menage however you spell it or Mini-coopers something you really have to work at driving.

Anyway that is my rant for the day! I am stoked about my run tonight at Highspeed didn't win but things were definately working out, thus all the rambling, hope all is well with all that read this.

Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrocamp View Post
I think, as Emu stated, that if there is a duplicate in the draw then another draw is done. I think this should be for duplicate body style or F1 chassis class as well... i.e no double stock-mod F1 class, double LM class or double DP class. The only exception might be GT, since we have determined that GT2 is always on the list... should we allow the option of running GT1 since most racers do have more than one GT body? Only two stock classes can be run so in the case of a third stock class being drawn that third class drawn should be run as mod. There is the possibility, of course, to run two mod classes in addition to the one stock GT class.

I like the idea of novelty or exhibition classes but it might be tough to squeeze in with a large turnout of racers if we want to keep events to one day. Should novelty or exhibition classes be allowed to be included in the draw? There should be limits on novelty classes, no one should throw in crawler or a Speed Racer-bodied only classes for example. A Speed Racer class might be entertaining though, I would add a small monkey to mine!

Wish I could have been there last night Jay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicsoul View Post
That make sense, I guess I didn't catch the jist of Eugene's post. It was late and the adrenaline was flowing. I think putting a fun class or spec class in the mix would be cool!

I don't think others would agree though, It would just mean having to spend more money on stuff to set up another car.

Maybe one day my dreams of a Mini-Cooper class will materialize. For now I am content with the 8 classes we already have established,
Quote:
Originally Posted by pick View Post
After talking with everyone last night, including Jim and Vicki, it looks like Saturday 11/20/2010 will be the date for the next CC event at HSH . That date seems to be far enough away from other events and everyone agrees that Dec would be a bad idea for a big race. If there are significant problems with that date, someone please speak up soon since it needs to be in stone asap .

I agree with Jay and Pedro on drawing the classes for next year. That's a great idea Jay . This way no one can claim any favoritism has taken place. I also agree with Pedro on no duplicate classes or three handout motor classes being run. As Pedro said, if they are drawn just redraw.

I like the idea of some novelty classes also, but I'd like to keep them as extra novelty classes only. There's been a lot of work put in by Mike, Landon, and Pedro to designate the different classes and rules set forth already. I would rather see the 90mm, spec, mini, etc classes just stay as fun classes so it won't hurt participation due to a racers funds.

As for the drawing, we could simply take all the classes written on seperate pieces of paper (minus Stock GT since it's always ran) and put them in a box. There would only be one entry paper per class. At the end of the next CC, the host of the next race would draw two classes out of the box. If the 2nd class drawn was a duplicate body style of the first drawn or would require a third handout class, simply put it back in the box and redraw. To keep it mixed up a bit we could also say that once a class is chosen to be run, it doesn't go back in the box until all other classes have been chosen. That may be a little too complicated, but just a thought .
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Old 2010.09.17, 01:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad508 View Post
the date is good with me. but as far as classes i dont see the need to always run gt2. i see no difference in it and lm2. i would like to see gt1 some as well but not both gt1 and gt2 in the same race. just my thoughts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicsoul View Post
I would tend to agree with you Chad, if it where just the same guys running all the time, which is highly likely unless we get some growth in the near future.

I think the importance of having a stock class is a James put it, to encourage newcomer participation. Most necomers will probably have a stock car and nothing else, so unless they purchased another body and motor mount or completely different car they would be unable to participate.

My thouhgts are if you don't have it, get it. Unfortunately, that is not everybodies reality or level of commitment to the sport.

If we didn't have to consider the possiblity of future growth I would whole heartedly agree with you.

However,considering that we should also be interested in future competitors catching the bug, I respectfully cannot agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Rabbit View Post
I think that GT Stock should always be run, and most likely will have the largest group of people, thats my take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad508 View Post
the only thing is most people we try to get into the hobby we push towards a lm ready to run as they are the best out of the box runners. the only other down side to always running gt2 is you only have 2 other classes to pick from. as hsh does not like to run dp cars and choses to run f1. and mbmzr runs dp just to change up the classes. why not instead of picking each class out of a hat, pic the whole race out of a hat. have all classes on a sheet of paper in ever possible config. and pic them out of a hat at the beginning of the season for all known races to be held in that year. that way everyone knows well in advance what classes they need to prep for, no suprises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pick View Post
X2 Daddy Rabbit
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad508 View Post
okay it looks like im the lone one on this. so if we always run gt2 what will the classes at cc4 be? with running gt2 we will have to run either the same classes we just ran at cc3 just flipping dp2 and f2 are the same thing we ran at cc2. the other thing i would put out there is if we always run one class we should add a race and have 4 classes. i just dont want to have to run the same classes every race. if we run 4 classes flip flopping mod and stock in the other 3 that should give us some variety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pick View Post
Alright Chad, I was ok with everything except for this statement. Yes, we choose to run F1 due to us not particularly caring for pan. But, to say that ya'll choose pan just to change it up is a load of crap! MBMZR has ran a pan class regularly for a long time. And, just as our open F1 cars are usually better than yours, your pan cars usually smoke us . I'm speaking collectively of the two groups and not individually. It's ok that in the past both groups have preferred to run classes that they are the best at collectively. It's all good . However, our drawing the classes in the future will eliminate all favoritism and any questioning of what the other group would have chosen. As for GT Stock, I think it's got to be our staple so we can keep the hobby growing. But, that's just my opinion. We simply don't have enough time or cars to run 4 classes, so that leaves us with two variable classes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pick View Post
The only class that will stay the same every time is the Stock GT . As I stated earlier, once a class is drawn, it wouldn't go back in the box until all other classes were drawn and ran at an event . That means every event would be very different. The other thing Pedro and I proposed was no duplicate body styles, so you won't have 2 F1 classes, 2 Pan classes, or 2 LM classes. All this would require is a possible redraw. No big deal. The only thing is that there may have to be an exception for GT Mod if we run GT Stock at every event, but that doesn't bother me .
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad508 View Post
but why can lm2 not be a staple? as far as us running pan it was due to hsh not wanting to run pan. and i have no problem with this. but if both tracks stick with this schedule we will always run the same thing every other race. me personally i would rather run f1 but if we had it would have been the same as cc2. dont take my post to be anything against hsh as they are not, i just want as much diversity in this series as we can get from both parties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad508 View Post
so will what you proposed get rid of having to run 2 stock classes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pick View Post
Maybe my thoughts aren't being typed clearly. The proposed drawing solution will result in the two variable classes being different at every event until all classes are ran. Then you put them all back in the box and start over drawing. The only issue would be not wanting or having enough handout motors for three stock classes. Therefore, the two variable classes drawn could be theoretically either 2 mod classes or a stock and a mod class. If two stock classes are drawn, just throw the 2nd one back in and draw again. If two of the same body type are drawn, once again throw the second one back in and draw again. I'm not sure why you don't think this would add variety. This would ensure that every event is different until all classes were ran. The only staple would be Stock GT for earlier reasons stated .
Quote:
Originally Posted by pick View Post
Keep in mind, we were just making a suggestion . I'll run whatever and however is decided. NO BIGGIE!!
James, this last post is the attitude every one needs to keep. We are just sharing opinions, and should all participate and have fun!
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Old 2010.09.17, 01:25 PM   #3
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What I would like to say is this, I will work my hardest to put the classes down on paper well in advance of the next race. We should have time to discuss said classes and a way to decide them at the next race.

As far as what classes we choose, saying we chose pan cars for diversity is a bunch of crap, lol. We run them things all the time. I did however run an LM class at the last race (and allowed them in the super stock class at the first race) to cater to you guys (since y'all all have them and run them weekly). I did throw the curve ball out there to make them mod this time, but hey, it is competition. The home team should have some what of an advantage, and this year, picking the classes was one of those advantages. There has been some negative talk about who picked what classes and why, and I think this randomized choice of classes is a great way to solve it.

EMU's suggestion is my favorite because the popular classes get a better chance at being run, but it is still not decided by one person, and doesn't really have any group in mind when it gets pulled out of the hat. If anything your guys will decide the classes at our place (as y'all have more people participate/vote at HS than we do), and we will have as many or more votes in the box for the event held at your place (because the drawing would take place at our track, with all of our locals). I couldn't have come up with something so perfect, but I love it

As far as classes, there are actually 10, but we have only tapped into about half of them so far. A couple of them are AWD classes, and will not likely get much support from our groups at this time, but they are there....looming in the background

Each host will have the ability to add non-points special classes at any given time. We ran four classes at the first race, and I think we had time to do another at the last race...especially if it was shortened, or didn't have many participants. It is important to keep the points paying classes more typical, as we want every one to have a chance at their best score.

Ive got some ideas about scoring too, but lets cover one subject at a time for now
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Old 2010.09.17, 08:51 PM   #4
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A few more thoughts

Plan A

Maybe since nobody can really seam to agree about the random/sort/pick method of future classes for the races.

Those concerned with the ulitmate outcome should draw up their individual proposals with how they think the classes should be picked. Once everyone has submitted there proposals we could have a drawing of those and then stick to the proposal picked.

I am pretty sure this is the whole reason why I own my own business. My way or the highway!

I am begining to think the reason Manufacture sanctioned races are so succesfull is because only one person is calling all the shots.

Plan B

Maybe the real solution is just to leave well enough alone and play off the success of an already succesfull series rather than bicker about the particulars.

Each club individually pick the classes they want to race prior to the next event (by voting amongst themselves would be my preference for HIGHSPEED any way) and present their choices at the next event. For instance MBMZR would present their selection choice at the CC4 race coming up.

My suggestion for my club HIGH Speed, would be to run those classes at our club races until the next cup and vice versa. At High Speed we normally run stock GT every week and alternate between LM and F-1 from week to week.

This would put a little variety in all of our race programs and also increase sales for our prospective shops.
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Old 2010.09.17, 09:12 PM   #5
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i have a 4 door CLK body that i think is real cool looking even the red bull car.i know its for awd cars but what does it matter if it's ran on a 2wd chassie. i think a 4dr body,touring car would be a cool class.just my two cents.sorry i don't know the real class name.

HSH should just pick three class's for the next CC and thats what we run. stock of coarse and what ever the other two maybe. i hope it would not be anything crazy. one of them better be F-1 now that i bought one for that reason. this should'nt be that big of a deal to pick some class's. either way i'm gonna drive the crap out of what ever i'm racing. cya

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Old 2010.09.17, 09:42 PM   #6
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i do have a renault body,i think thats how it's spelled.

jay,is that close to a mini cooper? i think in a few posts back from somewhere, i said something about having an expedition class at one of the CC races. small as i can go is 94mm. anything smaller is to hard for me to drive.
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Old 2010.12.05, 11:25 AM   #7
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Hey guys,
Let's get this thread active:
Where is the first race?
When?
What classes?
The idea of drawing the classes from a hat is a great idea, but since we did not do it at the last race, when are we going to have representatives from both clubs together to draw? Maybe Mike & Landon can get together and draw. Mike are you going to be in MB with Debbie anytime soon? Are any of you HSH guys going to be in the MB area in the near future?
I would like to see MBMZR host the first race of the year.
I know that we want to stay away from the last part of the month, so how about the 5th of February, I may be gone the middle of the month and stay away from Valentine's Day for all you lover boys.
As far as classses let's get together.
We need to settle on some more guidelines (rules) also.
Happy Holidays everyone.
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Old 2010.12.05, 01:40 PM   #8
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Maybe we could have a third party pick them for good measure. Out of a hat that is. Gary senior might be a good candidate. Just a thought.

Feb 5 seems good to me.
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Old 2010.12.05, 01:51 PM   #9
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Be patient. We are working on details and dates. We do not have anything concrete enough to post just yet.
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Old 2010.12.05, 04:17 PM   #10
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Just putting my two cents worth in.
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Old 2010.12.06, 05:57 PM   #11
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all i can say is make it simple.
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Old 2010.12.07, 05:50 AM   #12
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I like the ideas about drawing the next race's classes from a hat, with or without replacement depending on whether we want to mix it up less or more.

I hope the powers that be will consider ways of ending the race day earlier however, whether its by starting earlier or reducing the number of qualifiers from 3 to 2 or some other means. This is important to me, because it could mean the difference between attending events in MB or not. I'm sure the MB guys and some of the other out of towners like Matt and Eugene wouldn't mind getting home a little earier too. If the events could end at say 4:00pm, those from out of town should be able to make it home at a more reasonable hour. Currently with the event ending around 7:00 or 8:00 pm, it puts the closest out of towners home around midnight or later. I'm just too old to be out driving at that hour of the night.

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Old 2011.01.26, 10:12 PM   #13
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Let's get it going for the 2011 season!

There has been a lot of buzz lately with new races around the country as well as online series and competitions to compete in but I look forward to having some fun again with our Carolina Cup! The CC had a successfull first year, we just need to work up a schedule and finish up a detail or two as far as the rules and points are concerned to get it going again in 2011. Landon and I have agreed to share or split responsibilities in organizing the Cup this year, take a bit of the load off of him. He did a great job last year and I hope that I, and we at High Speed, can help make it even more fun.

We have high hopes for a possible new location for a CC race or two... the Hobbytown in Mooresville have secured a large, storefront space adjacent to the existing shop and plan to host MiniZ racing. Racing will continue at High Speed, the Mooresville HT location gives us an option and a new crowd to expose to the fun of 1/28th scale racing. Hopefully we can plant the seeds for a MiniZ scene in the Mooresville/Lake Norman area and make NC/SC a hotspot for 1/28th scale racing, like our friends up north enjoy.

Let's lay down some RCP...
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Old 2011.01.26, 10:17 PM   #14
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im with ya pedro. lets get some dates setup and get this thing going. like you said there is alot of races popping up and i would like to see us get some good dates lined up so we dont get left out to dry. good to hear that HT is getting a larger area for some possible races. keep us informed and up to date. i've told landon and i'll tell you, let me know what i can do to help.
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Old 2011.01.27, 06:34 AM   #15
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Thanks Chad! I know you guys have been busy lately and I have been quite busy at work, a little race in Florida to get ready for. I will bring up scheduling to the group tonight at High Speed.

I really hope the HT track works out. We need to prove to the owner that Mini Z racing is a good investment and that it is possible to build an active scene in the Mooresville/Lake Norman area. I think a CC race at HT would go a long way to proving that there is interest in racing these little cars and maybe convince some local rc enthusiasts to sell their Traxxas trucks and join the fun. I will stress that they need to get some other racing going in the space as well, like 1/18 oval or offroad, maybe even Tamiya Mini Coopers. As much as we love 1/28th racing we can't convince every would be racer to buy a MiniZ and I don't believe the track can survive on MiniZ racing alone. Even with the small track that was in the current store, hampered by low traction and a somewhat unreliable timing system, we had 3 local racers buy cars. A new, large dedicated space with a proper size track and a good timing system will hopefully convince others to invest in the cars and gear. The owner has said he wants to build a racing scene in addition to that which exists at High Speed, not take it over. The area that the HT store is in is very high traffic with lots of race fans and NASCAR teams. There is a large slot car track/store and an indoor go kart track just down the road. It will take some time but the possibility is there.
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