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Old 2004.11.13, 12:21 PM   #1
Zrc
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Club/Commercial tracks. Which One ??

Much has been said about some of the track systems on the market but most of the comments seem to be directed at the "home" user. So far RCP is the apparent first choice for a variety of good reasons. But how about for Club or Commercial use?? Many of you out there are part of a club, go to the local commercial track or even travel to attend bigger races.
What are the aspects you look for??
What surfaces do you prefer and why??
Do you like more "realistic"(grass,buildings,realistic layout) tracks or more generic "functional" tracks(do the job well but very few asthetics).
When you walk in to a club or commercial track setting...what makes you say "WOW" and what would turn you off ??
What size lanes do you feel are best suited to club/commercial use??
What size track (overall dimensions) would be best suited for club/commercial??
Do you prefer a ground level track or one raised from the floor ??
With these questions in mind(and others you may come up with), what track systems do you think offer a club or commercial operator the greatest benefits ?? Don't rule out ANY track type IE : asphalt, concrete, carpet, modular(RCP, Lakeshore,Etc...), Tar paper, Wood, ETC, ETC........
Try to keep things civil !! What you guy's say could be important to myself and others who may take the risk of investing in this hobby and providing more places to race. Thanks and I'm looking forward to your comments.
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Old 2004.11.13, 02:22 PM   #2
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All I can say, is if I could build a permanent track it wouldn't be made from foam mats or carpet. Latex coated wood sounds promising. I would also add the little details to make it more realistic, but I'm a scale modeler so I may not represent the majority on that one. I like a raised track, but a raised track limits the size somewhat since you need to be able to reach into the middle. I'd go with 3' lanes for road courses, maybe 4' for ovals. If the track is on the ground level it needs to be made durable enough to not be affected by people walking on it or accidently falling on it. IMO, the bigger the track the better! I dream of having a huge permanent track with 3' to 4' lanes and so long even a modded car would take 25 to 30 sec. to complete a lap, yet have plenty of straights and high speed corners as well as the slow sections. Some banking in places and elevations changes would somehow be built into it. Wouldn't a scale Laguna corkscew just be cool as heck? Well, that's my dream track anyways.

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Old 2004.11.13, 04:14 PM   #3
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I run a club of about 18 drivers, the track I built for the club can be seen at:
http:www.dorksonwheels.com

It's not permanent, but it looks good. You can see more pics of it on my minizworld member album, pg. 13.
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Old 2004.11.13, 05:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
Much has been said about some of the track systems on the market but most of the comments seem to be directed at the "home" user. So far RCP is the apparent first choice for a variety of good reasons. But how about for Club or Commercial use?? Many of you out there are part of a club, go to the local commercial track or even travel to attend bigger races.
What are the aspects you look for??
What surfaces do you prefer and why??
First of all, I own various types of R/Cs (gasoline, nitro, & electric) of various scales or R/Cs (1/4 scale and smaller) and have raced on various surfaces (dirt, asphalt, ozite, etc). I've also attended a few of the Kyosho sanctioned Mini-Z races--all of which were held on RCP Tracks. This includes 2003 and 2004 regional qualifiers and nationals. The local commercial track was a 4L RCP Track. However, I also own one RCP Mini-Tile 96 (30cm tiles), a 6L RCP track, an Oval RCP Track, and blank tiles and off road expansion packs for both the 50cm track and 30cm track.

Although I think it is quite obvious, my Z track preference is an RCP Track. First of all, an RCP Track is "dynamic". By dynamic, I mean it is always changing and evolving. RCP Tracks are also easy to set up, take down, and store. With the combined RCP Tracks that I own, I can probably make 100's of layouts and only a few are shown in Gallery TNB. I also plan to upload more photos since three of us were running on my track today—We set it up, we ran on it, and it is now stored until the next run. Have you checked my RCP Track Layouts album out yet? Go ahead; take a peak if you don’t believe the RC collection I own or the amount of track. In addition, RCP Tracks has been testing other surface tiles and some are already available, i.e. “rain” and off-road tiles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
Do you like more "realistic"(grass,buildings,realistic layout) tracks or more generic "functional" tracks(do the job well but very few asthetics).
When you walk in to a club or commercial track setting...what makes you say "WOW" and what would turn you off ??
Quite frankly, when it comes to racing most racers I know don't give a damn about the freaking decor as long as the track wasn't next to a nitro boat pond. A search of MZR would have brought those complaints up since there was a nitro boat pond next to the track at 2004 RCX / Kyosho US-Mini-Z-Cup finals. The main goal is to "win" not stop and smell the grass or look at the figures. Sure, I add a lot of decor to my RCP Track as the photos in Gallery TNB will show; however, racing and winning has nothing to do with the track surroundings. As far as that goes, if I can "dress up" an RCP Track each time I set it up, so can anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
What size lanes do you feel are best suited to club/commercial use??
What size track (overall dimensions) would be best suited for club/commercial??
Do you prefer a ground level track or one raised from the floor ??
If six cars are going to be racing at the same time, the track should be at least six cars wide. Since you apparently don't want to read past threads and if you are truely interested in non-bias responses, you may want to check out the ROAR rules regarding other scale cars. There are detailed sections on track widths and sizes. You could then try to scale it down, but the bottom line is that the faster the cars the more room they need to turn and move. Consequently, if you raise the track off the ground, how much room do you think is needed to drive a Mini-Z between 20-30mph if not more? Have you considered checking Kyosho's USA website? If and when you do, you will also notice numerous racers standing on chairs or crates even though the RCP Track is on the floor. If you raise the track, how do you think they would feel? I know how I would feel since I raced in Palmdale, California on an elevated track and I stood on a chair along with numerous others. Myself, I think it is stupid to raise a Mini-Z track considering how many other scale tracks have a driver's stand which is raised above the track itself. A raised track may also limit the configuration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
With these questions in mind(and others you may come up with), what track systems do you think offer a club or commercial operator the greatest benefits ?? Don't rule out ANY track type IE : asphalt, concrete, carpet, modular(RCP, Lakeshore,Etc...), Tar paper, Wood, ETC, ETC........
Try to keep things civil !! What you guy's say could be important to myself and others who may take the risk of investing in this hobby and providing more places to race. Thanks and I'm looking forward to your comments.
One of the biggest gripes I hear and read about tracks doesn't really have anything to do with the track surface itself since many racers will complain anyway. However, many do complain about the barriers--too hard, too sticky, blah, blah. Just read the posts. The bottom line is that racers need to stay off the rails. To me that means those particular racers either need to slow down since it appears that they cannot handle that speed or don't have their R/C set up properly. If you are serious about running a race, invest in a good timing system and if you want to attract more racers, purchase an RCP Track. Why do I write that? It's simple. Kyosho sells RCP Tracks, Radio Shack sells RCP Tracks, MZR sells RCP Tracks, Great Planes sells RCP Tracks... This means that more and more people can purchase RCP Tracks, practice on them, race on them, and even join them together.

Edit: Because I can't spell and am terrible at proof reading sometimes, but I do try to read the posts and race the Zs.
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Last edited by TNB; 2004.11.13 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 2004.11.13, 05:34 PM   #5
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RCP track.
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Old 2004.11.13, 07:20 PM   #6
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TNB, I'm quite sure there have been various threads asking about "this" type of track or "that" type of track. My intent was to address as many of those questions as possible in ONE informative thread but LIMITED TO CLUB AND COMMERCIAL applications. FYI...ROAR may suggest certain track and barrier dimensions but they are not so distint as to say " a track must allow for 6 cars to run side by side". ROAR basically suggests a lane width of 8ft minimum and a barrier height of 6 inches minimum. These figures are suggested....I have seen many tracks with smaller dimensions and many with larger.
Your comments are appreciated ! I'm hoping those with experience on a variety of track surfaces will respond. Likewise, I'm hoping those who could envision a "perfect" track will respond. RCP is obviously a well liked track surface but as I have found with 1/10 scale drivers.....just because it's widely used does not necessarily mean it's the only choice or that it fit's everyones needs or wishes. If that were the case, I'd be using plain old 2 inch PVC as my track system rather than the Road Rails I currently have.
Keep those comments coming guy's!! I'm sure some of you have been on some incredible tracks.......The pictures I've seen prove that SO share your thoughts.
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Old 2004.11.13, 07:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
FYI...ROAR may suggest certain track and barrier dimensions but they are not so distint as to say " a track must allow for 6 cars to run side by side". ROAR basically suggests a lane width of 8ft minimum and a barrier height of 6 inches minimum. These figures are suggested....I have seen many tracks with smaller dimensions and many with larger.
Unless you are considering the owner/operator opt out provision, Appendix A to the ROAR Rules lists "Minimum track width" for each class of R/C under ROAR. Some classes may have a minimum of 8 feet, but some other class are less (1/12 electric on-road 4-cell) or more (1/10 electric on-road (10 feet)).

http://www.roarracing.com/rules/pdfs/2004rules.pdf

And although Kyosho Mini-Zs are not regulated by ROAR, my point is still the same and that is an R/C needs enough room to "drive/race" and a faster R/C needs even a larger track. Even the examples I listed above show that ROAR sets the minimun track width for a 4 cell lower (compare the 6-cell which is 8 feet).

It also appears that you missed my point of RCP Tracks being available too. As far as that goes, most people are near a street or a parking lot and simple dots can be used instead of that PVC/Road Rail system I hear so many complaints about each time some racer breaks his R/C.
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Old 2004.11.13, 09:15 PM   #8
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imxlr8ed, nice track !! Is that carpet, modular or ...? davkin, I know that daydream !! My dream track is pretty nice too but since I'm still learning about the various surfaces, the picture keeps changing. On the other hand...that could be because I forgot to take my A.D.D medication !!
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Old 2004.11.15, 12:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
What surfaces do you prefer and why??
I have tried several surfaces and personally I prefer the ones that give you a kind of "realistic" medium / low grip. For instance a real racecar (Nascar, F1, etc) has some level of "spinning wheels" when starting (after a pit stop, for instance). Or it is able to “make donuts”, or to slow down on a turn not because the driver cannot handle the speed but because of the intrinsic laws of physics (yes, even in wide ovals). Basically if the surface does not allow that behavior then it won’t feel real and, for my taste, less challenging. In the other hand, if your public is a casual, inexperienced driver, you might want to have a “high grip track”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
Do you like more "realistic"(grass,buildings,realistic layout) tracks or more generic "functional" tracks(do the job well but very few asthetics).
Again, if you want to attract new customers I think that a nice looking track would help. Also, it would make sense since the cars themselves are kind of “very detailed models”. But, once more, it depends on your public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
When you walk in to a club or commercial track setting...what makes you say "WOW" and what would turn you off ??
I guess my previous answer applies here as well. A nice looking track it is always a nice track. And not only the track itself should be attractive. The facility in a whole should be inviting. I guess that “real racers” might not care too much about it but they will agree that a certain atmosphere should exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
What size lanes do you feel are best suited to club/commercial use??
What size track (overall dimensions) would be best suited for club/commercial??
3 feet sounds about right. Also, pay attention to the walls. You do not want cars short cutting the track or flying out of it. At the same time “a too tall rail” might not allow to see the cars properly in some places. Around 1 to 2 inches should work fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
Do you prefer a ground level track or one raised from the floor ??
A raised one looks nicer but it might not be very practical. A ground level one, in the other hand, provides a good view of the track but might tempt some people to walk on it plus it might get some extra dust. I would go with a “not too raised one” (1 – 2 feet?) with some at least equally elevated place for drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
With these questions in mind(and others you may come up with), what track systems do you think offer a club or commercial operator the greatest benefits ?? Don't rule out ANY track type IE : asphalt, concrete, carpet, modular(RCP, Lakeshore,Etc...), Tar paper, Wood, ETC, ETC........
Try to keep things civil !! What you guy's say could be important to myself and others who may take the risk of investing in this hobby and providing more places to race. Thanks and I'm looking forward to your comments.
A modular track is a desirable option. You can change the layout as well as the width of the track, surface for some sections, etc. Sadly, all existing modular tracks I have seen so far do not look as nice and realistic as custom-made tracks. You might be able to come with some solution that takes the best from both worlds: a nice looking track that can be modified or that has more than one layout overlapped into it.
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Old 2004.11.15, 12:18 PM   #10
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If its permanemt I'd like to see some ups and down..some banked and off camber turns. Maybe wider and narrower in spots and a long straightwwa with lots of turns after and before it. The drivers are should be raised and there needs to be adequate pit ares for people to tune and work on their cars.
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Old 2004.11.15, 01:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary_Racer
A modular track is a desirable option. You can change the layout as well as the width of the track, surface for some sections, etc. Sadly, all existing modular tracks I have seen so far do not look as nice and realistic as custom-made tracks.
Can you upload some photos? I'd like to see some of these tracks that you have seen since I'm always adding little things to my dynamic track and configurations.
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Old 2004.11.15, 02:49 PM   #12
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I believe for a commercial or club track you need to install a surface with the best grip you can find. Your track will be visited by people of all skill levels and you need to have something available to meet everyone’s needs. It is much harder to set your car up to grip on a surface that offers poor or medium grip characteristics than it is to make adjustments on a grip surface to allow your car to slide or drift around the turns. Most gripy surfaces that I have tested still require a soft rubber tire in order to run tight around the turns. Installing hard or stock tires on your car, will allow you to slide as much as you want, even on the gripiest surfaces.

In order to obtain what some call a “realistic” feel on a gripy track, all you need to do is leave the stock tires on or set your car up with harder tires. It’s that simple. Don’t be mislead to think that a high grip track will not allow you to slide around the curves or spin donuts like the real cars. Having a grip surface in your store or club will give those with modified cars a choice to run fast and tight and will also allow those who want a more “realistic” feel, to run hard tires and slide all day long.

This way you have the best of both worlds.

Last edited by RCPMini-z; 2004.11.15 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 2004.11.15, 02:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNB
Can you upload some photos? I'd like to see some of these tracks that you have seen since I'm always adding little things to my dynamic track and configurations.
TNB,
I suspect that you, as a very active member, might have seen them all already. I am talking mostly about those European (from Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc) and Asian (Hong Kong, japan, Malaysia, etc) tracks that have "real radius" turns, some turf and, in some cases, some trees, little houses, etc.
If I find one that is particularly cool I will post it as an example.
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Old 2004.11.15, 03:00 PM   #14
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If I was building a track for the people I would make it rasied of the ground........or at least the portion where the drivers sit.
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Old 2004.11.15, 03:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightfighter
If I was building a track for the people I would make it rasied of the ground........or at least the portion where the drivers sit.
I agree, the club and store tracks that I have seen that are sitting on some sort of platform look the best. Having a drivers stand that is higher than the track would be suggested, since it gives the drivers a better view.

If your using a platform, it is best to have a plan to marshall cars that flip over. Usually a long stick or pole will do the job. It would be good to have one pole with a hook or similar end, just in case a car will not move and needs to be picked up off the track.

It is also nice to have a pit lane that the drivers could pull into, off the traffic lane, when they have finished their run.
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