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Old 2008.05.28, 01:24 AM   #1
andreophile
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Bind-free aftermarket drive shaft

I know it's tough to beat the stock steel drive shaft in terms of smoothness and reliability, but the added performance attributed to lightweight alternatives like titanium and carbon fibre is something to be reckoned with; especially since weight reduction in spooling masses enhances performance substantially. That’s why I bought the Kyosho Ti64 drive shaft despite many experienced racers here advising against it. It made sense because the plastic pinion gear on the stock shaft will eventually wear out anyway.

Binding:
The Kyosho Ti64 seemed perfect on visual inspection and it even successfully passed the wobble test when I rolled the shaft (with the shaft pinion staying clear of the set-up board edge) about its axis. However, I noticed some serious binding between the shaft pinion gear and the crown gear of the front differential. The most notable characteristic of this binding was that it was cyclic in nature and wasn't binding consistently throughout the entire phase of rotation of the shaft pinion. The shaft would only bind at a certain point of contact between the pinion and the diff gear. It would be absolutely bind free for the rest of the gear to gear mesh.

Workaround:
I decided to fix this by taking away the 0.2 mm shims on the shorter side (port side) of the diff that pushes the diff crown gear onto the shaft pinion and shifting the shims to the opposite side (starboard side; longer side) of the diff, thereby creating a buffer that can accommodate the uneven rotational geometry of the shaft pinion. The binding was successfully dealt with.

Problem Isolated:
Although this worked, I found that my car became extremely noisy and there was still a hint of drag in the powertrain. Obviously there was something amiss with the drive shaft and I decided to investigate further. Since the shaft was perfect, the problem was bound to be with the pinion gear, but it still seemed absolutely perfect visually. That’s when it hit me. I took the stock and the Ti64 drive shafts and made them rest vertically on the set-up board besides each other (with the stock shaft on the left and the Ti64 on the right). This is exactly what I saw:


It wasn’t pretty. You can clearly see the Ti64 shaft (right side) deviating from the normal (along the vertical axis) by a large margin. It turned out that the Ti64 pinion wasn’t properly mounted onto the shaft. It was misaligned by a several degrees and that’s what made it press against the diff crown gear for a certain phase of rotation. Since rest of the shaft was perfect, there’s no way that this flaw caould be detected through the regular wobble test or visual inspection. Therefore, if you own a Kyosho Ti64 shaft with any binding or noise, I’d suggest you to perform this test.

I have chucked away my Ti64 shaft and reverted back to the stock one. I still want to shift to a reliable 94 mm shaft (either carbon fibre or titanium), since my SAS Pro kit can’t support the 90 mm config any longer. So inputs on the best 94 mm carbon fibre or titanium shafts will be deeply appreciated.
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Old 2008.05.28, 05:30 AM   #2
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my atomic 98mm ti shaft is perfect in my hfay car,the alloy pinion on it soon wears into sync with the front diff noise wise(it gets quieter)it rolls like a matchbox car would if you push it with no motor pinion.
i have a 3r blue alloy in my drifter with the alloy pinion removed and the stock one fitted.
my open awd has the kyosho ti one,again with the alloy pinion removed and stock in its place.
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Old 2008.05.28, 06:25 AM   #3
andreophile
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So I presume the problem with my Kyosho Ti64 shaft is a one off case. Even then it doesn't make much sense to buy another one since I cannot run the 90 mm setup anymore. It'd be prudent to go for a 94 mm drive shaft. That way, with my existing 94 mm spur gear set, I can easily switch over to the 98 mm config without an extension kit.

Which one of these would be a better option — an Atomic 94 mm Ti shaft or an Atomic 94 mm carbon fibre shaft? The carbon fibre version comes with a plastic pinion, so durability is still an issue. Can anyone here who's tried these two drive shafts give me an opinion on which one's better? The 94 mm Atomic Ti shafts seems to be the right choice so far. Thanks for the inputs.
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Old 2008.05.28, 10:10 AM   #4
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I also had issues with my Kyosho Ti driveshaft. It cause a little bit of binding and it was just too noisey. I have switched back to the Kyosho steel one with the plastic pinion, and I couldn't be happier. I had to slightly grind down the steel shaft on one end to get perfect gear mesh, and now it almost rolls like an MR-02 off throttle.

I also was looking at the Atomic carbon fiber one, and was curious if the Kyosho plastic pinion would fit on it? But I still think I am going to stick with my steel one for a long time!
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Old 2008.05.28, 03:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk2kompressor View Post
my atomic 98mm ti shaft is perfect in my hfay car, it rolls like a matchbox car would if you push it with no motor pinion.
Do you mean like this?
My free rolling Mini-Z

With the Kyosho Ti64 shaft installed, it wouldn't move at all even at very steep gradients. But when I shifted back to the stock drive shaft and shimmed the front diff properly, it rolls like a soapbox car now. I always make it a point to isolate and eliminate all sources of binding after changing any components.
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Old 2008.05.30, 11:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk2kompressor
my open awd has the kyosho ti one,again with the alloy pinion removed and stock in its place.
How did you manage that? I've been trying very hard to remove the alloy pinion off my Kyosho Ti64 drive-shaft without any success. I seems like an impossible task. Did you employ any trick (heating with a solder perhaps — differential expansion between Ti and brass) to get the pinion off? If I can get it off the shaft, I won't have to spend extra on a replacement. Help would be really appreciated.
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Old 2008.05.30, 11:53 AM   #7
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slot car pinion puller(lots of xmod shops sell them)
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Old 2008.10.22, 01:39 PM   #8
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Hi andreophile,
Cool!!!
Cheers
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Old 2008.10.22, 01:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel View Post
I also had issues with my Kyosho Ti driveshaft. It cause a little bit of binding and it was just too noisey. I have switched back to the Kyosho steel one with the plastic pinion, and I couldn't be happier. I had to slightly grind down the steel shaft on one end to get perfect gear mesh, and now it almost rolls like an MR-02 off throttle.

I also was looking at the Atomic carbon fiber one, and was curious if the Kyosho plastic pinion would fit on it? But I still think I am going to stick with my steel one for a long time!
The Kyosho plastic pinion will fit on the Atomic carbon fiber shaft.
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Old 2008.10.22, 02:19 PM   #10
eztuner12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel View Post
But I still think I am going to stick with my steel one for a long time!
Best decision!
Cheers
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Old 2008.12.02, 09:45 AM   #11
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Once worn where do I find the plastic Kyosho front pinion? Anyone have a part number? These are worth more than gold.
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Old 2008.12.05, 11:24 PM   #12
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^

the entire shaft comes in a small package w the stock gears and pinions.
It called "gear set"
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Old 2008.12.05, 11:47 PM   #13
eztuner12
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Hi Hekyl,
ATM has a replacement front gear (Atomic Mini-Z AWD Center Drive Shaft Front Pinion Gear Set) They come 3 units in the bag for only $2.99 I replace the original Kyosho after @ 2 month of use, the ATM I install has more than a year perhaps 1 1/2 years or more and is perfect, I use it with ATM slip ball front diff.
Cheers

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Old 2008.12.06, 12:39 AM   #14
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i bought the kyo ti shaft when it first came out. never ran it more than an hour or so it caused so much noise and drag. i either tossed it out or gave it away but never thought to take the metal pinion off.
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Old 2008.12.06, 12:03 PM   #15
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i want to do that also, how do you take the pinion off?
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