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Old 2015.07.20, 01:54 PM   #16
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If I go to my older tire box right now and pull out a set of old school GPMs that have been out of the bag since 03, they will still work the same as they did back then. Not only that but I can put them on any rim I choose and not have to glue them down or prep the outer edges.

So, we run rubber because then I don't have to force a newbie to go out and buy 4 sets of foam tires to race with us! And if he wants better tires, I reach into one of my boxes and give him a full set of tires, not worrying about if they are trued, glued or chunked... just slap'em on and go!

Once again... not everyone is looking to turn lap records. We are now going on years without any real major race events in the states. Regionals are apparently dead.
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Old 2015.07.20, 01:59 PM   #17
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With PN being the only large event sponsor domestically, they can spec whatever they want. When Kyosho had the mini-z cup they were very restrictive. Those who foot the bill get to make the rules which is only fair.

I don't realistically believe we will see a large event domestically other that what PN is doing. God knows it's been tried and there are some open series available but just hasn't caught on for any number of reasons, the least of which is what tires are used. Mini-z is a niche hobby. Has been for 15 years and likely will be for the next 15. Lots of debate here on what is or is not right with events here domestically, status of the hobby, etc, certainly enough that it need not be rehashed here (distraction to the subject at hand). Suffice to say, favored tires may swing to foam yet, only time will tell. We used to run on painted wood tracks, then carpet, the rcp, back to carpet, and seemingly back to rcp. Change is inevitable.

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Old 2015.07.20, 09:46 PM   #18
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:d kyosho tires rule!!!!:d

and if you race foam you are a fool!!!!
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Old 2015.07.20, 10:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by imxlr8ed View Post
If I go to my older tire box right now and pull out a set of old school GPMs that have been out of the bag since 03, they will still work the same as they did back then. Not only that but I can put them on any rim I choose and not have to glue them down or prep the outer edges.

So, we run rubber because then I don't have to force a newbie to go out and buy 4 sets of foam tires to race with us! And if he wants better tires, I reach into one of my boxes and give him a full set of tires, not worrying about if they are trued, glued or chunked... just slap'em on and go!

Once again... not everyone is looking to turn lap records. We are now going on years without any real major race events in the states. Regionals are apparently dead.
Not saying that everyone is trying to turn lap records... just better, more effective racing.

Giving some one new crap tires is not a solution to the eventual costs and the fact that the car will not handle that well. It is kind of off putting to put the car on the track and have it flip, push, hop, etc. etc.

I provided a logical rebuttle to your generalized statement that rubber tires are more cost effective and you respond with a response that serves no purpose... It does not matter what tire you use, there will be someone that wants to go fast and someone who is cheap.... This is a hobby and as such you need to pay to play, it is just in the nature of it. AND IF YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING YOU MIGHT AS WELL MAKE YOUR MONEY GO FURTHER. It is all well and good to rely on old tires and to reuse crap rims but the reality of it is if you have to spend money on tires (which is something that every racer has to do) You might as well get the best option available.

There are some people with a sport chassis who show up now and then but they do not really matter... If a big race ever starts to happen again they are not the ones who will be supporting the hobby shop and the manufacturers or the club tracks or whatever. It is the racers that buy new tires and rims and parts and upgrades and new chassis that make the racing possible... I am not trying to tell anyone that you should not race rubber tires, just that with the intention of bettering the hobby and trying to get a Mini-Z scene going again maybe foam tires should be considered.


Sorry for the tangent but I believe it needed to be said. What ever type of racing (rubber or foam) the only way to grow the racing community is to attract and foster new racers, not bashers..........

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:d kyosho tires rule!!!!:d

and if you race foam you are a fool!!!!
And this type of ignorant bias is really the intention of this thread.... Do you have any experience racing foam tires? Why should the racing community cater to the racers who are unwilling to invest in their own hobby?????? If foam is more cost effective, faster, more resiliant, and easier for bigger scale racers to transition into why would you call it foolish to use them. Logically foam tires make more sense for the racer........ Sure if you are a basher and think that having a car that spins and is erradict is fun all the power to you. You do not have to be in the amain or have MR33 driving skills to enjoy a car that is compliant and easy to drive. I am not saying that rubber tires are useless, just leave them for basement racing stock classes................

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Old 2015.07.21, 10:30 AM   #20
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It's just a topic that has entrenched opinions either direction . It's similar to debates on rules, classes, etc.
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Old 2015.07.21, 12:36 PM   #21
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Tires, tires, tires.
Important yes, and lots of lessons has been learned trough the years.

We have been racing Mini-Z around here since late 1999. Our club has been in operation in all these years, and we have been trough many different track surfaces, spanning from painted concrete, wood, latex painted wood, Plasti dip covered MDF, Regupol (Rubber mats) and RCP.
For RCP the rubber tires are faster. For the other surfaces foams are sometimes faster, sometimes not.

For all these surfaces our club ended up using rubber tires. Why?
- We lost members as soon as foam tires was in use.
- Most members think cars feel more natural on rubber tires.
- Most members hate the use of traction compounds.

So after 16 years of operation, our club are still using rubber tires. It is more challenging to get a good setup with rubber tires, but still people love the challenge. We still get new members in from other classes (10th scale, 12th scale, 8th scale buggy and 1/5 scale touring drivers.
They all say the handling and simple tire prep is what really makes the class.
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Old 2015.07.21, 04:30 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DMALMAD View Post
And you will never be competitive with that kind of tire prep....

Sure if you are kicking around in your basement by yourself and only buy new tires once a month then there is no reason to choose either foam v.s. rubber, just get whichever is easier and cheaper to get.

Basically if you think running your rubber tires without glue or even tape is a good practice, you need to re-evauate the way your car handles, how competitive you are, and what level of commitment you have to racing. If you do this and determine that you are happy to just have fun wheeling around with the stock kyosho motor and do not really care how your car handles and the laptimes you can do then you should deffinatly stick with rubber tires... no doubt about it. But if you think that getting optimal performance and drivablility out of your car is important than maybe give foam tires a try.

I think Rubber tires have their place, for basher oriented mini-z racers, but clearly foam tires should be considered for competitive racing.
Clearly you didn't read this part of my post

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but when you're just racing for fun it seems a bit overkill.


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Originally Posted by DMALMAD View Post
Not saying that everyone is trying to turn lap records... just better, more effective racing.

Giving some one new crap tires is not a solution to the eventual costs and the fact that the car will not handle that well. It is kind of off putting to put the car on the track and have it flip, push, hop, etc. etc.

It does not matter what tire you use, there will be someone that wants to go fast and someone who is cheap.... This is a hobby and as such you need to pay to play, it is just in the nature of it. AND IF YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING YOU MIGHT AS WELL MAKE YOUR MONEY GO FURTHER. It is all well and good to rely on old tires and to reuse crap rims but the reality of it is if you have to spend money on tires (which is something that every racer has to do) You might as well get the best option available.

There are some people with a sport chassis who show up now and then but they do not really matter...
so new racers trying out the sport don't matter unless they drop a ton of cash???

Sorry for the tangent but I believe it needed to be said. What ever type of racing (rubber or foam) the only way to grow the racing community is to attract and foster new racers, not bashers..........

Sure if you are a basher and think that having a car that spins and is erradict is fun all the power to you. You do not have to be in the amain or have MR33 driving skills to enjoy a car that is compliant and easy to drive. I am not saying that rubber tires are useless, just leave them for basement racing stock classes................
So in your opinion, if a mini-z racer isn't running foam they're just a cheap, ignorant, lazy, basement bashing, money wasting, can't drive moron???

Well excuse me Mr Formula1mini-ztopnotchracer, not everyone has the desire or the resources to be a F1 driver. Some of us poor lowly ignorant grassroots folk just get together to have some fun. Our group doesn't do Qualifiers and B-mains and A-mains. We just have races. Sometimes the races are with AWD and 2WD cars at the came time. That concept probably horrifies you too.

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Also a side note, I know at my club everyone has a tire truer but I know this is not the case everywhere else... about what percent of club racers own a tire truer?
This is because your club is clearly full of like minded F1 level racers. Good for you. I'm sure glad I live near a group that is so much more relaxed.

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See, you have to understand... not everybody who races these cars are quite so gung-ho to get every little tenth of a second out of each lap so it really doesn't freekin matter to them.

Have fun... cheaply. That is and always will be the best route.
What he said. x10.

There used to be an Indy race held in my area, I attended every single one. The drivers were, for the most part, friendly and available to meet fans and sign autographs. I've never attended other motorsports events but I've heard that the drivers are much the same at other levels of racing.................

EXCEPT FORMULA 1.

I've never been to an event but I've known several people who have and they all said the same thing....F1 drivers are the most arrogant drivers in the business.
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Old 2015.07.21, 05:03 PM   #23
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Which goes back to what I've been saying from the beginning, it's a broad generalized opinion that is no less biased than the counter. It also has everything to do with venue and Motivation. I continue to believe you do not have to put a lot of money into this scale to be competitive.

Rune, Awsome you guys have hung in there from the beginning.
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Old 2015.07.21, 06:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rune View Post
Tires, tires, tires.
Important yes, and lots of lessons has been learned trough the years.

We have been racing Mini-Z around here since late 1999. Our club has been in operation in all these years, and we have been trough many different track surfaces, spanning from painted concrete, wood, latex painted wood, Plasti dip covered MDF, Regupol (Rubber mats) and RCP.
For RCP the rubber tires are faster. For the other surfaces foams are sometimes faster, sometimes not.

For all these surfaces our club ended up using rubber tires. Why?
- We lost members as soon as foam tires was in use.
- Most members think cars feel more natural on rubber tires.
- Most members hate the use of traction compounds.

So after 16 years of operation, our club are still using rubber tires. It is more challenging to get a good setup with rubber tires, but still people love the challenge. We still get new members in from other classes (10th scale, 12th scale, 8th scale buggy and 1/5 scale touring drivers.
They all say the handling and simple tire prep is what really makes the class.
Totally agree!
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Old 2015.07.21, 06:11 PM   #25
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I know on F****@@K, im a part of or following many mini-z r.c. groups. The majority run on RCP with rubber tires. They are some of the best Z racers in the world. I hardly think there all wrong and many of them run other scales. Theres a BIG Z following overseas. Great to see what people that have a passion for mini-z do. Shame its not like that here (in the U.S.)
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Old 2015.07.21, 07:51 PM   #26
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So I think we're pretty much done with the back and forth :

Of 10 respondents in this thread there's 1 person who thinks foams are the way to go. The other 9 think rubber is fine for racing.

I'd have to say a 90%approval rating for rubber its pretty clear foams aren't necessarily the be all end all of mini z racing.
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Old 2015.07.21, 08:41 PM   #27
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Thats fair, I wanted to know why rubber tires were preffered and the answer seems to be for the most part that most haven't tried it but just like rubber just because....

I never said that rubber tires shouldn't be used, just that in a big race scenario foam tires would be preferential.... I also never said that foam tires are a neccesity to racing, they are better for more competitive race groups and less effective for groups centered around having a blast driving in useless circles.

Just because more people like rubber tires does not mean they are more informed. Of all the responses for rubber tires I think only a couple of people were justified. The only reason I have seem to have come up with for not liking foam is the traction compound but traction compound is not neccesary for using foam tires. FYI you still have to use traction compound with rubber tires on carpet so the traction compound is entirely dependant on the race surface.

Yes choosing one type of tire is directly dependant upon opinion and environment of racing but at the same time I tried to share my opinion and base it on facts and experience with both rubber and foam. All I wanted was for racers with the opposite opinions to do the same and that seems to be problematic as everyone has to make a debate into an arguement.... they are two very different things.

But I guess you are right this thread is kind of useless now since barely anyone is able to consider even thinking about trying something new.... Sorry I shared my opinion and experiences since everyone seems to like the way things are in the racing scene now... a few small clusters of basement racing and a couple of dedicated tracks....
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Old 2015.07.21, 08:52 PM   #28
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There are some people with a sport chassis who show up now and then but they do not really matter... If a big race ever starts to happen again they are not the ones who will be supporting the hobby shop and the manufacturers or the club tracks or whatever. It is the racers that buy new tires and rims and parts and upgrades and new chassis that make the racing possible... I am not trying to tell anyone that you should not race rubber tires, just that with the intention of bettering the hobby and trying to get a Mini-Z scene going again maybe foam tires should be considered.
XMODCANNUCK REQUOTE:


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMALMAD View Post
There are some people with a sport chassis who show up now and then but they do not really matter...
so new racers trying out the sport don't matter unless they drop a ton of cash???


If you actually read the full quote you will understand why from the interest of supporting the LHS or hobby shop or even the manufacturers who make getting the chassis or parts or whatever possible a person who buys an rtr and never buys another thing is only hurting the racing communtity and telling the manufacturers to keep stuffing crap rtrs down our throats
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Old 2015.07.21, 09:13 PM   #29
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Well if I can I would like to make my peace and be done with this. Let me start with a little history of me. I got into the wonderful world of mini z in the spring of 2006. I picked up a used mr02 Enzo for $50. I was introduced to this hobby by a good old friend of mine which inspired me to buy said mr02. He took me to the club he races with which is the Washington, D.C. Gtg who I still race with to this very day. I won my first race by a hair. This which lead to the next race I showed up for, I was introduced to one of the clubs pro racers who in turn said " so you are TheRinger, the shoe in." Which should obviously explain my username.
Through the years, I've got to meet some great racers both local and abroad. I learned a lot and through practice and determination I managed to do well especially though it doesn't matter to you won a couple of HFAY seasons. But like all the years I've played paintball or playing drums in different bands or really anything in life, if you take it too seriously you will burn out and their for not enjoy what you do. You will grow to hate it and will make you bitter and angry. This is a HOBBY!!! Not a way of life. These are plastic cars that run on batteries and dare I say sometimes rubber tires.
I also have this thing people call "a life" and can no longer devote the time and energy that I once did. I went from practicing and racing every waking moment possible to I'm lucky if I can race once a month. I don't do the prep work to my cars like I used to. But that's life. So what's all of this leading to? Most people got into this hobby, I'll say again"HOBBY" because it's fun and affordable. Although it's easy to get caught up in being competitive, usually some do not take it to the ridiculous. People just want to race and have fun, that's it.
Now to the point. I made a post on this thread last night as a JOKE! But also to test ones character and which I am not surprised to the response to be honest. I have seen you post on other threads and you never have anything good or useful to say and yes I'm talking about you DMALMAD. You really need to get a hold of yourself. For one I did not start a thread on foam tires and wanting opinions on them. Then when people posted their opinion BASH them for doing so. Some of the people who posted on your worthless thread are who I consider good friends. Especially on how ridiculously long post on defending your point of foam tires. Like Dennis Miller I don't mean to get off on a rant but why not since you referred to my post as "ignorant". You are the very reason why someone who gets into and quickly gets out of this hobby. Nobody wants some arrogant tool like yourself to put them down for whatever reason you see fit. People like you are the reason this hobby or any other hobby doesn't advance like it should. I'm assuming you are from New Jersey and if that's the way y'all like to race then that's you clubs business. It doesn't mean we follow lock step with you.
I personally never raced foam tires because 1. Most races I've to never allow foam and 2. Rubber tires are readily available compared to foam. I prefer kyosho tires over any other and that is just my opinion. It isn't solid fact. I through trial and error came to that. I've raced GPM, PN, atomic, 3racing and even gave Iwavier tires a try among others. Kyosho has been the most consistent and reliable. That's what works for me. Doesn't mean it works for everyone else.
So in closing I propose this offer to you DMALMAD, either you apologize to everyone that's posted on this thread or remove yourself from the forums and mini z community. Go back to your precious 10th scale and foam tires where I have a feeling you left because you got spanked on the daily. Because you are not needed here.
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Old 2015.07.21, 10:23 PM   #30
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You are the very reason why someone who gets into and quickly gets out of this hobby. Nobody wants some arrogant tool like yourself to put them down for whatever reason you see fit. People like you are the reason this hobby or any other hobby doesn't advance like it should.
I am sure if you came to the track I race at you would feel differently. Every new racer that has come through the hobbyshop and wanted to run Mini-Z I have tried my best to help. I can not count how many a-arms I have built and rebuilt, or front ends / rear ends, to help someone new. Even the guys who buy a sports and only show up to practice once a month. I don't put anyone down, and think that everyone has a right to enjoy the hobby. But that only goes so far, I am not talking about friendly racing I am talking about large events (something I repeatedly mentioned). If I offended you over a tire material than I am sorry but that is all that I was debating. BTW here is a tuning guide that I have compiled and created just so that the transistion from Basher to new comer is not so difficult (this is something I show and explain to every person who shows an interest in racing that I meet at the track): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...NdOBl92HA/edit

I think tires are important to grow racing, while I may get carried away, I can support anything I say and am not sorry for anything I said pertaining to or about tires. Just because I think foam tires are better, does not mean that I do not want the sport to diminish or grow smaller. The way I see it, the better and easier it is to race the more poeple will want to race. Simple as that...
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