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Old 2010.11.15, 03:16 PM   #1
Deca
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Getting Started

So I guess I'm ready to take the plunge pretty soon, I'd like to be able to join you guys with a car of my own next time you meet up. I had most of my questions answered Saturday night, but just wanted to clear up a few more things and figured how best/most conveniently to go about getting set up and supporting the shop.

I've pretty much decided on a MR-02 (more than likely picking one up new), but out of curiosity how much more would it cost me to go 2.4? What kind of price would I be looking at for a low end, yet capable (definitely going to need expo) radio? If I do go AM/FM, what are my best options? Rensuchan suggested his radio as a good starting point, though I can't remember what model it was exactly.

The body I would really like to go with, the 2002 Takata Dome NSX, is currently out of print it seems. Would the shop be able to get ahold of one for me somehow (or maybe they have one packed away somewhere?) or am I basically left to fend for myself here?

Any other general advice will be appreciated as well.
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Old 2010.11.15, 08:58 PM   #2
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D, welcome to the madness! We sold our last Takata NSX last week! I think it was a 2007 though. As far as fending for yourself - we have the largest selection of AutoScales in the known universe - when people call Kyosho looking for something rear, they send them to us! If you don't see what you need, let us know and we'l see what we can do! Honestly the best thing w/b for us to just browse the shop together at the next race so we can make real-time recommendations etc. and get you set up w/ the perfect rig. I understand the attraction of the NSX, but you'll likely want to go MM, not RM (not sure how far you are in your research - let me know if you need me to explain). One of the best MR-02 values right now is the Xanavi Nismo 2008 Nissan GT-R R35 MR-02 MM ReadySet - that's everything you need in one box short of batteries. RE 2.4 - min. Tx is the Perfex KT-18, which is $80; next w/b the Perfex EX-5UR which is a really excellent deal and has all the features you're likely to need, and then some. Anyway, let's just hook up at the beginning of the next race and get you sorted - though don't hesitate to ask any add'l questions in the meantime; btw, email me your cell # and I'll add you to the Dojo txt alert list!
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Old 2010.11.15, 09:30 PM   #3
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Will do

I was looking into the differences between the MM and RM and wheel offsets and all that, and got a chance to drive Will's NSX during practice last Saturday. I actually really preferred the feel of it to the MMs I drove, I felt like it worked better with the way I was handling the corners and just felt a bit more in control. I really liked the way you could get the back end to step out a little and just push all the way through the corners as well.

Honestly, when I first started looking into mini Zs, the car I was set on was the Europa. I've heard they don't do so well though, I could see them being a lot more finicky/spinny in the turns with such a small light body on the RM.

I'm definitely all ears and look forward to the next race day! (just hoping it won't be thanksgiving weekend while I'm out of town)
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Old 2010.11.15, 10:38 PM   #4
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I am not local, but wanted to welcome you to the forums and offer a little insight...

The biggest issues with the Europa is that it leaves the front wheels pretty exposed. Any brush against the boards, and the car will ride up on the boards and rip your tire off (even when glued onto the wheel). When I was driving it, I added a little bumper to prevent it (glued some lexan to the front of the body). It helped, while it still held onto the body, which wasnt very long. I think that I drove the body 5 times before I decided to go to something else.

I personally feel that RM cars are easier to drive, since they have more rear grip. Although, they do have a pendulum effect off throttle/on brakes as you steer into the corner where the rear end wants to lead. MM in general has more speed into the corner, but RM can get on the throttle harder and exit with more speed. RM you have to slow down a little more before the turn, but MM can decelerate a little more in the turn.

What I recommend, since you said you liked the feel of RM, is that you get a 94mm RM car that you like the body of, and eventually get a 94mm MM mount for it if you feel you want to go that route. RM works very well on low grip tracks, since the center of mass is rear biased. High grip tracks usually favor MM, but I have seen some very fast RM cars as well.

In general with RM, I like bodies with more front mass. MM I like neutral bodies or more rear mass. I like the car to rotate more when I come off throttle in a corner. In general, a car with more front mass will push off throttle in a corner, and more rear mass will rotate. The opposite is true for acceleration effect.

I would also recommend that you get an ASF car whatever you decide to get. I like the MR03, but the MR02 is still a great car and is a better bang for the buck. Keep the front end simple to start with either car. And focus a on getting the rear end sorted first(t-plates, bearings, dampening/suspension) then move onto the front once the rear is working well (unless there is a problem with the front). This is the general approach that I take with all of my 2wd cars.

I personally prefer the tri-damper setups, but it can be a little tricky to fit into smaller bodies. A Disc damper setup is the standard right now, while it works well to dampen the suspension movement, it actually prevents the rear from centering well. The tri-damper allows it to center well each time, allowing a more consistant car exiting the corners.

Whatever you decide to get welcome to the hobby.
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Old 2010.11.16, 04:11 AM   #5
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Personally, I liked Europa and raced one for a good half a year. It teaches you to stay off the walls, but is also somewhat forgiving when you run into them. What I like about Europa is that it doesn't have a crazy tendency to flip like plenty of narrow bodies out there and the wheel clerance is rather good even if you lower the front by playing with the front clip.






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Old 2010.11.16, 09:04 AM   #6
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The Europa is such a pretty little car, I love the things to death...I think I may wait to try and pick one of them up though. Just based on what I've heard I think I'd prefer to go with something a little more forgiving on the walls to get started. I also really liked the weight of the NSX I got to drive..I think I'd like a chance to drive a Europa before deciding to make it my starter/only car.

I'm really conflicted on the whole 2.4ghz issue. It's a lot more money than an old radio...but I did notice the downsides of older radios in the little time I got to drive (lots of glitching issues in one corner, didn't play well with the lap counter either). Also I personally dislike the huge antennae poking out of these otherwise very realistic scale bodies.

One concern of mine is that if it can be helped I would like to purchase a Tx that can grow with me/ be used to operate other cars if I do go with a 2.4. By that I mean potentially running non Kyosho cars in the future, maybe some larger stuff. It would just make me feel better about spending the additional money if I knew I could use it for other things down the line. I don't know if this is possible, however. Does Kyosho use a completely proprietary Rx that only binds to certain Txs? Or if it is possible to run, say, a Spektrum Tx with a Mini Z, is it a great deal more expensive and tedious to get it set up?

Oh and one final question for mini-z. I think I found a site that has the 2002 Takata Dome NSX body in stock...is there any way you'd be able to order one? I would definitely prefer to give you the business/ support the local shop. I'm still open to other body suggestions as well...it's just that big old black/white/yellow NSX and those GREEN WHEELS get me all excited I've always preferred the older NSX style to the newer one.
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Old 2010.11.16, 09:09 AM   #7
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Deca,

Most of the higher end radios have modules that you can switch in and out that let them work with other cars, so you should be set as long as you buy a solid radio from the start.

And yeah, the glitching I get in certain corners makes me want to upgrade all of my cars to 2.4 lol. Maybe next year if I get some extra cash
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Old 2010.11.16, 09:48 AM   #8
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Ahh, good to know :3

I guess I'll just make sure whatever I get can be made compatible with other things later on and bite the bullet for a 2.4 setup. I...guess I can afford to drop the extra 100 or so...I'm sure I won't regret it a year from now.
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Old 2010.11.16, 10:26 AM   #9
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D, did you get my email? I have a bunch of input on all of the above, but wanted to give you a quick Tx overview first:

Perfex KT-18 - this is the least expensive but most basic option. It is best suited to cost-conscious users who don't anticipate the need for the more advanced functionality, muiltiple profiles, etc. that you get from the higher-end devices.

Perfex EX-5UR - this recent release sits perfectly between the KT-18 and the higher-end module-based radios. If you were serious about racing Mini-Zs, didn't want to go all out on an EX-10, and didn't intend to use it w/ any non-Mini-Z chassis then I'd say this is the way to go.

The next step up is to module-based radios. Because you want to use it w/ other RCs, this is where you need to be looking. It's an investment, but most of us use ours for all of our RC stuff, from dNaNos up to 5th scale stuff. The KO PROPO Mini-Z EX-1 UR 2.4GHz ASF SS is a great choice, if you recall Derrick's radio, he uses an older version of this. The grand daddy of them all is the KO PROPO Mini-Z EX-10 Eurus 2.4GHz ASF SS; most of us use EX-10s, and find it to be the best choice for serious racing.

RE Spektrum, it is not in any way compatible w/ Mini-Zs, short of gutting and replacing the electronics, which makes no sense, unless you were running a pan chassis or something and building from scratch. Each of the different 2.4 GHz systems out there is different and not cross-compatible. Even KO's own 2.4 system isn't compatible w/ Mini-Zs. That's where the modules come in though - when we want to run 10th scale stuff, we just pop out our Mini-Z module and pop in the Spektrum.

And, just to complicate things there is a PN KO Module Adapter available that lets you run the KO module (15502), which ordinarily w/b limited to KO transmitters, in a 3PK/M8/M11 Transmitter, etc.

I hope the above gives you a good overview - LMK if any specific questions etc.!
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Old 2010.11.16, 11:02 AM   #10
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The 5UR would be stretching my current budget...don't think I can afford to do anything beyond that to be sure...I suppose if I wanted to move up later I could always sell whatever I have at the time. I wish the 2.4 stuff was just a hair less pricey.

I'd like to keep the whole initial setup...hopefully under 300 dollars (I'm guessing that's about what a car and passable Tx would run me if I go 2.4). I feel like it might be a good idea for me to check secondary market for a Tx...though that's not near as convenient as just being able to come out and pick stuff up. I don't suppose you could work any sort of bundle discount or anything?
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Old 2010.11.16, 11:05 AM   #11
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In all seriousness, we absolutely do do bundle discounts - just saw your email, so will follow up w/ you there on this.
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Old 2010.11.16, 11:06 AM   #12
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And yes, btw, there's a strong secondary market even w/in the group - most of those EX-10-toting guys' old M8s etc. are now in the hands of other Dojo members.
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Old 2010.11.16, 12:18 PM   #13
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Keep in mind that with say, something like PN 90 milimeter Mid Mount, you can easily switch between 90mm and 94mm wheelbase, so having different cars would be a matter of having 2 bodies and matching wheel sets. Not much hassle at all to switch between the 2 lengths when one motor mount supports both + 98mm quite easily.

I'd say go ahead and get a NSX and a Europa and play around with both.
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Old 2010.11.16, 05:02 PM   #14
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OK so I believe I have settled on an MR03 with the Arta NSX body to start...and am spending a bit more than I expected to when I first thought "hey I'm gonna buy a mini z" a few weeks ago :P
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Old 2010.11.16, 08:34 PM   #15
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Hey Deca,

Things I never regretted paying a slight premium for with Mini-Zs:
  • 2.4Ghz over 27Mhz AM (I hate glitches during a race and don't have to worry about crystal conflicts)
  • Quality Transmitter (started with used M8, moved up to used Helios - loved both)
  • Generally accepted good race bodies: McLaren F1 (98mm), Enzo (98mm), NSX (94mm)
  • Good Ball Diff
  • Good AAA Race Batteries
  • Quality Race Tires (although you typically don't pay a big premium for these...just have to know which ones to get)
  • Good metal/carbon fiber parts for plastic parts that typically break

-hobbycar
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