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Old 2004.05.09, 12:29 AM   #1
easy
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What happened to the the clones body of knowledge thread?

The Clones Body of Knowledge thread started by arch2b in the beginner forum after he locked the New Clones Iwaver thread in the new products forum has been deleted.

I believe this has occurred because I was asked by moderator Draconious to show him where he slandered the Iwaver clone directly, initiated discussions on copyright violations by the makers of the Iwaver and said things himself that he claims were either exaggerated and/or misquotes made by other people.

Bird and I both posted several quotes from Draconious proving that he did all of the things he claims he did not and that he was also the aggressive influence in the discussion that caused moderator arch2b to lock the thread.

A third member sg219 also posted a definition of the word moderator for Draconious and said he thought Draconiousí aggressive demeanour violated Draconiousí own definition of a moderatorís duties on the forum. A fourth new member said he came to this forum to learn about the Mini Z and was disappointed to see the draconian attitude that Draconious exhibited in his posts.

Instead of doing the honourable thing and apologising to the other members and myself Draconious or someone else decided to hide his humiliation by deleting the thread instead of accepting responsibility for his unacceptable behaviour.

Shame on you Draconious for not having the character to accept responsibility for your unbecoming behaviour.
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Last edited by easy; 2004.05.09 at 12:31 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 2004.05.09, 01:07 AM   #2
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You have everything all wrong... at at some point you will realise this, and it will be YOU who does the apologizing...

You, few, did everyting but directly lie in your posts, you constantly twisted what I said to fit your needs, and constantly took things out of context... made it look like I said something about object X, when it was realy about object Y... there were even a few sarcastic posts that you took way too seriously... Its a load of crap and you know it... the only one that should be ashamed and humiliated is you... for wasting any ones time who has read this dribble.

These types of posts are impossible to correct, I have tried, you do not listen, you do not care, the only action left was to delete them... or you will just keep adding totaly irrelevent comments...

The thread should not have been started in the first place, and it was not intended to continue your flame war... it was intended to discuss the clone issue... As I said in the thread if it could not be kept about the clones them selves, instead of some ones view on them, it will be deleted, and you had to go summon your buddies to all post within X minutes of each other... to do nothing but belittle me. I do not feel it worth the time or energy, that you have put forth in the matter, to correct your very misguided posts...

I have said a million times read the dang threads again, and only the parts I said, not what others said, it will help, maybe two or three times will help even more, before you go claiming I said what I did not... and again I will remind you, almost all my "CLONE" threads are in regards to the HEIPOA!!! NOT THE FLIPPING IWAVER... but this just goes in one ear and out the other...

You continue to turn this into a war... why? are you this bored? I keep telling you to drop it, you refuse too...

As of NOW, there are to be no further comments involving me on this matter from you, or those posting in that thread, you WILL be banned.
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Old 2004.05.09, 03:54 AM   #3
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I guess you should talk to arch2b about why he started that thread Draconious not me.

All Bird and I did is what you asked and that is to show you where you said things that we objected to. Instead of meeting your own challenge and taking the time to correct us you simply deleted the entire thread.

The only reason for you to do that and not let anyone who is interested read and decide for themselves is because you could not alter the facts in you favour.

You can ban me and every one else who disagrees with you draconious but if you do the membership around here is going to shirink and sales at the shop are likely to be affected.

You should start asking yourself why so many people percieve you as a bully and not the cool voice of reason you perceive yourself as.
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SSMT143 crawlers, the OL killers at 1/3 the price.
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Old 2004.05.09, 04:02 AM   #4
Ken Mifune
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wait a minute. was the thread deleted? If it was, who deleted it? It was the thread that was suppose to contain this "discussion" and keep it from turning into a multi-thread character bash-fest ala NML / manchowder.
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Old 2004.05.09, 08:55 AM   #5
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I have been sitting on the sidelines and cannot take this anymore, Drac has been attempting to educate people when it comes to buying the clones, He brings up some valid points. I read that he is bashing the Iwaver. I don't read him doing so, he is not putting it up with the Mini Z and that is his opinion and perogitive. I cannot see where he is getting personal with any of the members. Now on the other hand, you people that are attempting to defend the Iwaver and other clones, You have not provided the information needed to dispute so you are getting personal and slamming Drac. Why? Are you so insecure with getting and liking the Iwaver that what one person says is his opinion bothers you so much?? Instead of slamming, attempt if you can to build up the Iwaver. I have seen some members do just this and the reading has been enjoyable (thanks TJBryant). But they have stopped because of all the slanderous typing and enuendo going on. Easy, How do you know wthat Drac deleted the thread?? Your post states so and slams him for it. Is Drac the only moderator?? I am beginning to believe that an apology is needed but not from Drac. To me, it looks like no one will ever agree with this issue. That is not a bad thing. What is bad is when it gets personal. To me, that is a person grasping because they are not informed enough to debate the facts (or they know they are on the losing side.)
As far as information that Arch put out here, He copied it all from Dracs site so if you would like to get some more information, read his site!!
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Old 2004.05.09, 10:16 AM   #6
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I actualy did delete the thread, well not litteraly deleted.. it was moved to another "area" of the forum... I did this because I was teamed up on, with a tripple and sort of a quadruple post, from multiple people... and very long posts... to try and fix... sigh... I have them in a unviewable area of the forum, while I type out my reply, since I have to reply to 3 fairly long posts... and now is not the best time for me to do so... it also keeps it "locked" for further bashing... untill the matter is resolved... When I am done replying so to speak... I will put the thread back were it was, its just too out of hand to leave it sit and fester while I am away... I realy should not bring it back to view, but I will...

Also note that some one in the thread posted that their PMs were disabled, as if they thought they were being punished, this is disabled on the entire forum... to save server space, its been this way for a few years... so dont try to use little things like this to try and make me look bad .

I need this time to type, because as my C's and D's in English class's in the past, have proven, I am not the best with words... in this particular case it needs special attention...

Now go tell your mothers that you love them... I got better things to do today.

___

Thanks PAULANGELO... it took a lot to be the first to say that, concidering the situation, and the potential flame that could follow...

Untill I find another item that requires it, the only thing that I will apologize for now, is my hasty posts that are obviously always miss read by at least one person out there, and my desire to keep people from being screwed in the ebay auctions... (the decietful ebay auctions where the soal purpose of my clones page, and they have nothing to do with the I waver...)
http://draconious.com/Mini-Z/_FakeMini-Z.html
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Last edited by Draconious; 2004.05.09 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 2004.05.09, 11:03 AM   #7
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Is it a bad idea to start the Iwaver its own spot on the forum?
The Iwaver has growing following everyday and because it is so close to the mini-z as in all the parts. Why canít it be a bastard cousin of the mini-z? A spot to provide support and get the people with limited means into a real mini-z someday. Unlike the x-mod the I-waver shares so much in common with the Z I think it would be a great thing to welcome members with I-wavers to this forum and make it a better place for everyone and maybe change their hearts and not only their minds to the real z
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Old 2004.05.09, 12:07 PM   #8
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Drac, No problem, If any negative responses come from my post, It only proves my point more. I agree with techno, This form name is Mini Z Racer, I don't read the work Kyosho in it anywhere. Any thoughts of a thread for the iwaver? That way, Drac can stay out of it and anyone can say how much they adore it. Free speech and all.
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Old 2004.05.09, 02:14 PM   #9
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The two things that needs to be addressed if a Iwaiver forum is viable
1. The personal attacks against members need to stop
2. The age old vs. questions need to be limited
the Iwaiver and the Kyosho mini-z are not on the same par and should not be constantly compared although the Iwaiver is a cheap alternative to the Kyosho MR01 its like comparing a MR02 to a MR01 in my view
I think it would be in the interest of the forum to support the Iwaiver because of all the parts that can be sold to people who own them and the whole new generation to own these and introduce them to the hobby that is 1:28 scale mini-z racing
I am not a mod or anyone with great influence just an observer looking at where we are and could be. Heck I donít even own an Iwaiver yet.
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Old 2004.05.10, 05:48 PM   #10
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I agree that a seperate Iwaver forum should be added and I agree that the issues discussed should be about the product not the people or the legitmacy of the product.

I also think that comments about the specifc performance aspects of any product should be based on personal experience with the product being discussed only. I do not feel it is appropriate to condem specific performance characteristics based on experience with a different version of the product only.
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I never said it would be easy, only that it would work. W. Edwards Deming

SSMT143 crawlers, the OL killers at 1/3 the price.
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Old 2004.05.10, 08:24 PM   #11
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an I waiver thread would be great.
we're now all aware that they are inferior, yet good.

it's easy: buy something you like, and use it. have fun.
if someone else doesn't like it, who cares!!
let them state their opinion and move on.
You're wasting the skin on your fingers if you think a long-winded post will change their mind. (you can use this post as an example;-)
there was some good info in those threads amongst the 'he said, we said'.
too bad those interested had to wade.

some people live for this internet tit-for-tat b.s.,
and it's sort of starting to look like:
'here we go again...'

sigh...
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Old 2004.05.10, 09:54 PM   #12
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I agree that there was good information intended to educate in the thread and I truly believe that is what each of us is trying to do.

A lot of my posts are too long so I'll work on getting to the point more quickly in the future. Thanks for the tip Stuz.
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I never said it would be easy, only that it would work. W. Edwards Deming

SSMT143 crawlers, the OL killers at 1/3 the price.
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Old 2004.05.16, 10:01 PM   #13
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I would like an IWaiver section...

Or an MR-01 section. Same thing structurally. Same hop-ups other than electrical MosFets or such.
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Old 2004.05.16, 10:52 PM   #14
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Hopefully the administrators will make an Iwaver and or MR-01 forum. I agree they could easily be combined.

On this site you can check the Mini RC forum as there are few posts there about the Iwaver.
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I never said it would be easy, only that it would work. W. Edwards Deming

SSMT143 crawlers, the OL killers at 1/3 the price.

Last edited by easy; 2004.05.16 at 10:54 PM. Reason: To suggest looking at the mini rc forum.
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Old 2004.05.18, 06:19 PM   #15
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I have been silent on this forum because I truely believe my views about the Iwaver as a RC hobbiest were taken to a whole other level.
SO in that...I would like to say Lets stop the bickering and bashing and negativity on both sides.
Yes, I like the Iwaver. I like the product. And I have fun with it. WE are all RC fans here (I hope, unless I have the wrong forum). We all deserve our own opinions and views, afterall, it is the Internet (free speech and all).

Lets continue to educate and LEARN more about the Mini Z and its competitors (including clones).
I know this is a MINI Z forum where the majority of people are Big Kyosho fans, but this shouldn't stop anyone from posting their positive or negative INTELLIGENT thoughts about another product most people know little about, or (maybe) unwilling to learn about.
So
I agree,
We should have a Iwaver thread. This way, those who don't care about the Iwaver or its topics don't even have to view the new thread topics. It'll be in its own category without harming the Many fans who enjoy their "Z."
Personally I happen to be a Z fan and an Iwaver fan. Not to mention a DTM fan....hehehe

Finally Thank you to all, Easy, Arch2b, Drac, PaulAngelo and many others for your views on this extremely interesting product and discussion.
Now lets be friends.
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