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Old 2008.10.01, 09:16 PM   #16
bmxtrev
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^ ha, i actually got up and tried this, and it makes very good sense! good one marc
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Old 2008.10.01, 09:32 PM   #17
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Ahhhhhhh, another plus one in my book. Too bad it doesn't work for camber though.
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Old 2008.10.02, 06:51 AM   #18
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^ You have to bend at the knees to try camber, lol.
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Old 2008.10.02, 08:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruf
Neat picture! You probably found toe-in to have a slightly tighter turning radius due to the geometry of the steering rack. Toe-in implies that the outer tire is already turned into the corner slightly. This continues to full lock, and if you look closely you can actually see that the outside tire has a larger steering angle on the toe-in example. Despite your best efforts to creep along at low speed, the outside tire will always bear more load than the inside, and thus dictate a slightly tighter turning radius with the toe-in setting. Very cool demo!

Also, don't forget other forces like camber thrust...
Thanks. I knew that weight shifts onto the outer wheel (with a sharper turning radius) during acceleration, which affords a toed-in car with better on-power steering. Conversely, a lack of substantial weight transfer gives considerable traction to the inner wheel (with a shallower turning radius) and hence induces understeer during off-power cornering. I've even empirically verified all this.

This baffled me more when toe-in provided a tighter radius after I did the tests by crawling the Z to emulate off-power condition. But your post gives clarity on my inherent mistake. Weight transfer occurs even when crawling, so I erred at the outset. I should've just accelerated and cut the power off to emulate off-power cornering. In fact, I just tried it out this afternoon and found the that results verify with my toe-control setting chart.
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Old 2008.11.07, 12:17 AM   #20
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very informative.

how does Toe-in or toe-out affect the amount of steering during,
entry, mid and exit of a turn?

Im having some issues, my AWD, had lots of steering mid - exit (on power) but not much at entry off power,

I have the kyosho #4 toe-in bar which is 1.5* (in the front)

my MR02, has 0 toe, and does not have my steering mid-exit (on power)

Based on this thread:

for my AWD I should, DECREASE FRONT TOE so that I have more steering off power.

for my MR02, since i need more mid to exit on power, I should probably toe-in the wheels some?


(also does the same apply for the rear?) more toe-in in the rear will allow for the rear end to rotate some while providing grip? - the way I learned it was that the more rear tio, the harder for the car to rotate bc I hooked to the road more.
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Old 2008.11.08, 09:44 AM   #21
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someone answer my post please =)
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Old 2008.11.09, 07:48 PM   #22
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Toe out will give you more entry or initial steering. It will give you less mid corner and exit steering.

Toe in will do the opposite.

To answer your questions 2 posts above, yes you should try what you said for both your awd and -02.

Last edited by Slipstream; 2008.11.09 at 07:50 PM. Reason: added to reply
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Old 2008.11.09, 10:22 PM   #23
eztuner12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreophile View Post
I played around with five different toe settings today from +2.3° (toe in) to -0.6° (toe out). I practically verified with my MA-010 what's common knowledge about toe settings. That is, real car toe characteristics work out identically for the Mini-Z too. Here's what I've verified:


Then I tested how the turning radius is affected at the extremes of toe settings (refer image below; click to enlarge). The steering dual rate was set at 90% and I crawled the car at maximum lock. Surprisingly, I found the turning radius to be shorter for toe-in than for toe-out.

Man this is a great ilustration, o yeah!
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