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Old 2019.05.12, 03:28 PM   #31
mugler
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Come to think of it in presence of rules 9 & 10 adding time trials specially for the 70t/3500 category adds a nice little 2nd chance in the way of allowing individual racers to strut their stuff outside of variables under racing conditions so good in that way , just something to be considered further with that, it would be a shame if some racers chose to skip the races to run time trials only... for that reason it would be good if the software could require race results for that name handle to be posted for the month before time trials results can also be posted for that handle... Or am i missing the fact that time trials as they are now ( or been up to this point) are to be a completely separate deal, different layout meant to be run on a different day, which relates to my next paragraph & my comment on nolt too.

I made a suggestion along with reasons on item #14 on nolt for time trials to be happening on the same layout for that months races because reading it was not clear if it was meant time trials were to be on different layout than corresponding months' race layouts?

While on the subject of Time trial categories I’ve been really wanting the F1 category to be available for submission & just thinking out laoud I guess if possible any category per request & approval (ie 86mm, any 90mm variety, 94mm, single body yada yada etc) can be open for submission so any drivers no matter how few can can choose to run and submit?

Displaying results for the two different classes, i would think would need to be displayed and ranked completely separately and only if a combo display as an added option was possible then that would be a nice bonus feature. if the two class results were to be combined just one of the issues would be drivers running both classes would be ranked twice so the entire ranking itself would be inaccurate then.

Last edited by mugler; 2019.05.12 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 2019.05.12, 04:04 PM   #32
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Are time trials meant to be run in a specific direction? Can they be ran ccw and cw?
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Old 2019.05.12, 10:28 PM   #33
mugler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSEO View Post
Are time trials meant to be run in a specific direction? Can they be ran ccw and cw?
Did a quick check of time trials specific rules and didnt see a mention about direction but I'm sure HFAY veterans will answer this soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mugler View Post
Come to think of it in presence of rules 9 & 10 adding time trials specially for the 70t/3500 category adds a nice little 2nd chance in the way of allowing individual racers to strut their stuff outside of variables under racing conditions so good in that way , just something to be considered further with that, it would be a shame if some racers chose to skip the races to run time trials only... for that reason it would be good if the software could require race results for that name handle to be posted for the month before time trials results can also be posted for that handle... Or am i missing the fact that time trials as they are now ( or been up to this point) are to be a completely separate deal, different layout meant to be run on a different day, which relates to my next paragraph & my comment on nolt too.
Just realized needed to correct myself regarding what i wrote above ...I forgot time trials are based on shortest run time for 50 laps completed and not most laps completed in 8 minutes like the races so the direct comparison for an individual driver between TTrials & race results I was referring to wouldn't be the case & there's no danger of drivers preferring TTrials over racing. Cross checking TTrials and race results would still be possible among those drivers who run both but that becomes a nice fun bonus to look into should TTrials be added for ranked classes..anyway please carry on with the rest of the discussions, thank you.
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Old 2019.05.20, 06:59 PM   #34
art4242
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NiMH vs Lithium for "open" class

Ok, I had my track up over the weekend and we ran our May races on track 12, and I was able to get in some time trial experiments comparing open NiMH and lithium cars.

I ran two cars, a 5250kV with NiMH only and a 3500kV car initially NiMH and then rewired to 2S2P lithium AAA (besides powertrain both cars were setup identically).

Results for 50 lap times trials on track 12 are below:

3500kV (NiMH) - 3:08.465 fast lap: 3.577s
5250kV (NiMH) - 3:01:082 fast lap: 3.442s
3500kV (Lithium) - 3:03.952 fast lap: 3.405s

Detailed heat sheets are also attached.

The 3500kV NiMH was geared at 53/13, while the 5250kV NiMH and 3500kV Lithium were both geared at 53/9.

I ended up reducing the throttle high point about 10% off max on the lithium car. Trying it out for a while it was just a little too much power to be consistent at 100% throttle. More power would get me a very slightly faster fast lap, but made it harder to go mistake free.

Looking at the top 5,10, 20 lap times the 5250kV NiMH and 3500kV Lithium were basically dead even within about a hundredth of a second (I was slightly less consistent with the lithium car and had one more bobble).

Based on this I'm thinking the "open" class should be pretty self equalizing between lithium and NiMH. There's only so much power than can be put down controllably on the HFAY sized layouts, and you can arrive at that with either battery chemistry and motor combo.

Last edited by art4242; 2019.05.20 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 2019.05.21, 05:57 PM   #35
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Art, your feedback and detail is very concise and represents exactly what would be expected. The are considerable diminishing returns on a track this size once you get to the 5600kv AAA power level. The additional power from the lipo does not make much difference.

Do you know the weights for each car? I wonder if lithium is noticeably lighter, and could influence the fact that you needed to lower the hipoint to make it comfortable to drive.

Thanks for sharing your data and opinions on the matter.
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Old 2019.05.23, 01:39 PM   #36
art4242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMU View Post
Art, your feedback and detail is very concise and represents exactly what would be expected. The are considerable diminishing returns on a track this size once you get to the 5600kv AAA power level. The additional power from the lipo does not make much difference.

Do you know the weights for each car? I wonder if lithium is noticeably lighter, and could influence the fact that you needed to lower the hipoint to make it comfortable to drive.

Thanks for sharing your data and opinions on the matter.
Good point, I forgot about the lighter weight of the lithiums. From previous measurements a set of lithiums is about 11gm lighter than the NiMH's, so that would be the weight difference between cars. Usually I would add the Marka brass plate onto the front of the lithium car but forgot.

FYI I added videos of the time trial runs on track 12 onto the playlist here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...PKnSs4SAI4lYlC
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Old 2019.05.25, 02:02 PM   #37
mugler
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Thanks for great videos and info. I have a feeling adding weight to the 3500 lithium car will make it faster overall and that package with the right gearing should be a great choice for next seasons open class.
Couple of years ago we ran a 94mm stock class allowing 3500 lithium cars at 54/8 gearing & 170g to run with open geared 70T/Nimh/open geared cars. Top end of the lithium car was noticeably slower by a tad but out of corners infield it would make up so much time that it was no contest at the end.
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