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Old 2002.12.14, 07:10 PM   #1
wrcracer
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Official Mini-Z Racing league

this is needed. i know all the LHS have their classes, but we need an official, nationwide set of classes. something like ROAR, NORRCA, or IFMAR. i think this would help get an annual national competition going, as well. I realize that this would be just about brand specific (there are hardly no cars comparable to the Z). i know this has been discussed before, but something oughta be done about it. Since Mini-ZRacer.com is pretty much the biggest mini-z discussion forum on the web, i think this is the place to start it.

i came up with some basic classes, they'll definately need fine tuning, but theyre a starting point:

Stock:

no aftermarket parts/modifications. perfex transmitter only. entry level class, it'll allow new racers to get into racing without shelling out $200 to build a race-spec Z.

Stock Power:

no aftermarket power-adders (ie, Turbos, FET upgrades, etc). stock motors only. because these are cheap, track owners might consider handout motors to eliminate the possiblility of a mod armature. suspension and handling modifications are allowed (shocks, H/O-plates, motor mounts, springs, camber/caster knuckles, tie rods, tires, etc). stock electronics must be retained.

Modified:

same as Stock power, with aftermarket power adders (turbos, FET upgrades, etc) and modified motors allowed. stock reciever must be retained, but aftermarket transmitter is allowed.

Open Modified:

anything goes, aftermarket electronics, handmade parts, etc. must use 4 cells. chassis modifications are limited to suitably mounting aftermarket servo (if used). must use 130 size motor.

Open:

no restrictions. no cell limit, any electronics allowed. any chassis modifications. any motor size. car must not exceed 20cm in length and 8cm in width.


those are the classes. anyway, the problem with this is getting everyone to accept it. how would it become the "standard" class? how (and who) would regulate it? as far as i know, no governing body exists for micro RC (especially mini-zs). its definately needed with the growing popularity of micro RC, and like i said, this is the place to start it.
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Old 2002.12.15, 02:09 PM   #2
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wrcracer, I've moved this under Mini-ZRacing.com because the aim of Mini-ZRacing.com is to come up with and govern a set of rules like those which you propose.

Personally, I'd like to see tire choice added to Stock, for two reasons. First, the stock tires are so bad that most tracks will be hard to handle even to experienced drivers due to the lack of traction. Second, stock tires can get worn out, and with aftermarket tires being as inexpensive as they are, I don't think lifting this restriction would blow the budget of racers in this class. You'd need to allow aftermarket servo gears (even though they'd be the same as stock, just because they do get broken). Also, I'd consider allowing choice of wheelnuts (again, to replace damaged ones). Finally, I'd allow bumpers. Good idea to require Perfex usage, as I know my M8 would give me a giant advantage in stock class. Note that you didn't specify cell restrictions (NiMH/NiCad?).
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Old 2002.12.15, 03:35 PM   #3
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yea, i think servo gears and locknuts would be a good idea, as they really dont make any difference in performance. as for cell choice, since batteries really wont break someone's wallet, i think that its racer's choice, cause theyre limited to 4 AAA size cells.
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Old 2002.12.21, 11:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by wrcracer
as for cell choice, since batteries really wont break someone's wallet, i think that its racer's choice, cause theyre limited to 4 AAA size cells.
Well, the problem is, I have a special set of NiCads that would blow the doors off of all of the other stock cars, so I think it should at least be restricted to NiMH.
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Old 2002.12.22, 07:55 AM   #5
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Box stock, tires-bearings-lock nuts-h-plate only........Handout 4 Duracell alkaline bats. 1 set per race of 3 heats and main. Handout stock motor--return motor and bats at end of race day. Include the bats in the entry fee. This pretty much makes it an even playing field. Engrave the bats and the motor and record the numbers with the racers ID. Seal the motor ears and brushes with different colors and adhesives for each weeks event. Believe me, if somebody can find a way to beat the system they will. Must tech out top place finishers before the standings are given in every class.

Stock, any mods any radio. stock board and chassis, 4 NiMH bats only, local availability may dictate a specific brand. Handout motor! This is the only way to assure no special winds or tweeking! Seals same as box stock. You make think this severe but I've seen "factory sealed" motors with special winds pawned off as stock motors. If there's a will, there's a way. Autoscale bodies only.

Sportsman stock, any mods any radio any bats any chassis, Autoscale shell. Handout motor, same reasons as above. Fet mods limited to a double stack or aftermarket turbo. 4 cell limit.

Modified, any mods any radio any bats any shells any motor any chassis, 4 stack fet limit. 4 cell limit.

Open, anything goes.
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Old 2003.01.13, 12:18 AM   #6
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What about F1???

Stock=Stock

Pro=anything goes!
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Old 2003.03.13, 04:22 PM   #7
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ya the F1's are faster.. iv raced my mini-z with a x-speed and thats it with a F1 and he was almost on the 3rd lap when i was in 1 1/2 laps we were on a small track tho i didnt race there much.
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Old 2005.03.25, 09:33 PM   #8
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Shocked to see this thread and the lack of responses to it. I almost started a new one but had no idea where to put it.

I am guessing that there is no governing body as of yet for Mini Z. One model that I think could be used is that of the American Subbuteo Association. (Subbuteo is a table soccer game - not like foosball at all) There we are broken into 5 different regions. Check out the link under About Subbuteo then Bylaws. Subbuteo like Mini Z is in a growth stage. I attended last years International Grand Prix/Open near Baltimore MD. I was in total shock at the amount of players and the 7 or so that came over from Europe. Subbuteo also has an international governing board like the FIA or FIFA for us soccer fans. We even have national and world champions based on point earned through out the year.

We would need first off a President and VP. Under them would be the regional presidents. Those people would set up the guidelines that all clubs could follow for their own local leagues. Also when a "regional" race is set, everyone would know what rules would be in place for different classes. IE: MR01-Stock/Mod, MR02/015-Stock/Mod, F1/CP Cup-Stock/Mod, OL-Stock/Mod, MZM-Stock/Mod and maybe CP-Stock/Mod.

I think for Stock Classes the major restriction should be no FET or Turbo. Stock chassis with modifications (colored chassis are allowed-must be K or IW), a selection of motors that would be approved by the board for the stock class beyond just X-speed, maybe the 3Racing and the PN that do not need the FET. Stock K or IW body with not mod other than opening wheel wells for clearance. No additional wings or "tuner" style body kits. Any wheel/tire, Diff, bearings, motor pod allowed. 4 Cell rechargable batteries only

For Mod Classes no restrictions, Any FET, any motor, any body (lexan included) with wings/spoilers. Any Chassis as long as it stays within Mini Z scale. Any battery set up.

Keeping the classes simple would be best to start. If any thing else would be needed maybe a novice class and pro class for stock. Give us newer guys a chance at any bigger race.

Of course we would use minizracer.com as our home for communications and race results. Series points for national rankings would also be posted.

What are your thoughts on this? Really hope to hear from TNB, Arch and Bye-Bye on this one. But please, everyone else that might have an opinion on it feel free to post!!!!!

Thanks all
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Old 2005.03.26, 07:19 AM   #9
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Setting up an association would be a good idea !! Speaking as a newcomer to Z's and being a 10th scale racer I can say that I feel a little lost trying to "fit" myself in to the Mini Z world. Without a central association, there doesn't appear to be any sense of unity among the Mini Z population. Personally I think the biggest problem is the confusion regarding Kyosho's distribution here in the U.S. and the susequent lack of direct company involvement BUT .....an association would surely help bring us together and stabilize some rules for sanctioned races. I've noticed 2 attempts at this......the AMZRA (american mini z racing association) and IamZ Racing (international association for mini Z racing). Can we try again ??? A letter of introduction to Kyosho would also be a good idea. Let them know we're organizing.
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Old 2005.03.26, 09:52 AM   #10
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there is an attempt to organize a national racing series already. it's very similar to the pn racing series but different.

without a national racing event or series of events, i find any kind of national orgainzation unlikley. mini-z's have the potential i believe as the kyohso mini-z cup was rather sucessful for all it's faults for the 3 years it was running.

what i would like to see is a couple national racing series/events tied to a common set of rules and rankings. this way we would have several racing series choices and a vastly better chance of having one local. this would require ALOT of cooperation and communication which has proved harder than one would think to acheive.

the whole thing with classes/rules alone has generated volumes of threads and arguements for this and that. i sadlythink it is not likely that hot's/sponsors of various sereies/event are likely to come together with enough common ground to acheive this lofty goal though. i hate to be a pessimist but i just don't see it happening. everyone inlvoved has invested interests and VERY strong opinions and as you can easily see, there is not a huge demand for cooperation at this point. if do believe however that if enough people got involved and organized enough to convince the host/sponsors that it is in their and our best interest to create a national organization under which all these events could be held, it will never happen.

also, as it was pointed out... the entire distribution mystery regarding kyosho and thier future plans really does not make anything easier. we all know gp was effectively useless in promoting mini-z's so lets hope that the future without gp will be much better.

i would like to suggest a summit if you will of all the major host/sponsors/retailers in an effort to begin something akin to a national organization. if table soccer can pull it off, why can't the mini-z community?
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Old 2005.03.26, 12:57 PM   #11
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I think that we should get some sort of list/pitition going for each area and send it in to somebody who would be willing to package it in a neat little bundle. Then it could be presented to the right people. I think that there aren't enough of the 'right' people that are not even aware of the huge R/C mini base market. 'People' are money oriented and they just need to be 'tipped off' to the money making potential of this newer and growing community of mini racers. I also think that maybe the current 10th scale orginizations could be convinced to run events (they already have a knowledge base that would only need to be mini tweeked) , as long as they were seperate from the 10th scale. The events would be a week long ordeal rather then a fun week-end with all of it combined. So it would have to be a stand alone event/fun week-end. I also think that now that there is a Kyosho USA that it would be easier to get them involved. And it wouldn't have to be something like a TCS race where the goal is to goto Japan and race a final end of season world race ( though that would be cool!) All the after market guys could show up at these events and show off there wares and maybe sponser a few racers to promote them. RCP or Lakeshore would no doubt like the extra oppurtunity to have more racers and shops be exsposed to there great racing tracks/surfaces. More people just need to be made aware of the growing potential that is the mini world.
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Old 2005.03.26, 03:26 PM   #12
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Cool

Well here goes another disagreement...lol Though it would be cool to have a weeklong event, the expense for the competitors would be too great. Hotel room x5-7 days would be very costly.

Rules should be simple too. Just Stock (not-FET/non-Turbo, stock bodies, stock chassis)/ Mod (FETed or Turbo, any body, any Z scale chassis) with a $10 motor claimer rule in Stock and $30 claimer rule in Mod. For those not familiar with claimer rules, you can buy a competitors motor for that amount after the race. Helps keep cheating in check. Would you put $50+ into a motor that could be bought from you for $10/$30?

I am thinking smaller, much smaller. First putting together a US governing body (NMZL-National Mini-Z League?) to set forth rules. Then dividing the country into regions, ex: MA, MI, VT, RI, NY, PA, WV, VA, DE, and DC would be the North East region. For me here in Western PA I would try to develop a local club. Arch and Bye-Bye would work on one in the VA/DC area and so forth.

After establishing somewhat strong local clubs then we could work on setting up regional events. Maybe one every 2 months? No worrys about sponsors for now, that would be something in the future. The only sponsors I could really see us needing to start of with would be for lap timing and scoring equipment. That would be the biggest expense of all.

Say Arch wanted to host a regional event, mostly he would try to find a facility to host the event at...a high school gym...Community center...YMCA? Someplace free or cheap. Maybe a $5 or $10 fee for drivers to help cover price of venue and trophies. Since the vast majority of us currently run RCP each individual or club could bring there track, or portions of their track, so a larger track could be created. It would be run on a Saturday and Sunday. Sunday's final race would be no later than 4pm so attendees could make it back home for work on Monday. When a regional event takes place, points would be awarded to all that attened. Each day would be a seperate event so point would be scored Saturday and Sunday. I am thinking that the average regional would have between 8 to 20 drivers.

As things progress then we worry about getting National events together. There would be a max of 3 National events awarded by the govering body per season. Maybe a Spring, Summer and Fall Nationals. The Nationals would be a similar format to Regional races. Saturday and Sunday with full events run on both days and points scored for both days.

For this example I will use Arch again (because of your location near DC, a good tourist destination in the spring). Arch hosts the Spring National event, again he just looks for a place to hold it and clubs would bring their tracks to build the course. Points for National events would be double what regional events score and again all attendees would score points to the National Championship.

For the fall event say TNB hosts it (chosen because of Vegas! and the weather on the east coast would be starting to turn bad. Why not go someplace warm) He would do the same as Arch did. Just find a location to host the event. We all take our tracks to make the larger track. I know, bad example with TNB since he owns half of what RCP has produced...LOL

Each competitor would be responsible for getting to the event along with food and lodging. If people wanted to open up there homes for some of the travelers to stay at that could be a bonus, just help chip in for food then for the day or two.

Ultimatly, each region would have a champion and the Nationals would produce the National Champion. Down the line we would look at adding an International race where our fellow drivers from the rest of the world would be more than welcome.

We would not have an awards banquet or anything like that for the National Champion (unless I win it! ) No prize money either.

All in all, we would want to start small. Like a business. Work on developing into a larger sactioning body over years not months. Even in the future we would work with Z related companies and products would need to be approved by the governing body for competition.

I do base most of this all off of Subbuteo as they have not only the ASA but also an international governing body, FISTF. Check out the FISTF Tour page!! This years World Cup was in Italy and had over 100 players in attendance. 6 Americans went over, sadly I was not one of them but I have neither the funds nor the talent to make it to that high of a level. This years International event in Ellicott City, MD will be attended by at least 40 American players and it looks like there will be at least 10 comming from Europe.
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Old 2005.03.26, 03:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
there is an attempt to organize a national racing series already. it's very similar to the pn racing series but different.... if table soccer can pull it off, why can't the mini-z community?
I checked out that thread and the minizcupusa site a few times. Looked like it might have died off with no more posts to the thread and the site not updated. I was under the impression this was more of a Kyosho Cup styled endevor. More of a national focus instead of a sanctioning body.

Yes, seen all the talk about classes before too. That is why I suggest keeping it simple. Guys and girls that want to go really fast can build a Mod car. The rest of us that want to save money would be in the stock class. I do not see a need for a strictly stock class since all of us want to go a little faster than stock.
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Old 2005.03.26, 09:23 PM   #14
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There's merit to the idea of approaching ROAR or NORCCA to set up a Mini Z division. That might be the quickest way to get things going.
In Lieu of that, somone interested in forming the association simply needs to say.." Hi, we're forming an association." We need to elect the critical administration officers first and then ask for a list of volunteers to represent the various chosen "regions."
Forget about week long events. Leave that to promoters, whether it be a person or a club. Why worry about equipment ?? The association doesn't need to supply equipment. That's up to the promoters. If the promoters want or need sponsors, then they will seek them.
We needn't make this a bigger deal than necessary. The job of the association should be to manage a set of rules and to help promote the hobby wherever possible.
Mini Z racing and it's associated lower operating costs should be considered a Godsend !!! But the work load must be distributed between the association , clubs, and individual drivers.
(1) So what should the name be?? I really liked " American Mini Z Racing Association (AMZRA).
(2) Do we have anybody involved in this forum that would be a good candidate for our first President??
(3) Anybody out there want to be a Regional Director ?? I say set up the regions just like ROAR does. Down the road it may come in handy.
(4) What type of membership fees should be charged ??
As a last note I would add that I'm still a bit unsure of Kyosho's plans for the future so we might want to start things now by simply sending Kyosho a letter stating that we are forming an association meant to represent U.S. Mini Z racers and that we look forward to working with them and would appreciate their approval. This should be handled by our elected first President.
Who's up for the job??????
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Old 2005.03.27, 08:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
1) So what should the name be?? I really liked " American Mini Z Racing Association (AMZRA).
I personally open to any name. I just came up with NMZL on the spot last night. I did not know there were other names floating around out there. AMZRA is cool with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrc
(4) What type of membership fees should be charged ??
None. No membership fees at all.

Only fees that should be charged would be for race weekend and that would be to help the host cover the cost of venue, trophies and maybe snacks. I would like to see a fee $10 cap for weekend events

This should not be a money-making venture for the Association or race promoters. If a LHS ends up being a host (CP, Tom Thumb...et all) They will be able to make money through sales of supplies.
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