Mini-Z, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer, MR-03, MR-02, MA-010, Forums, News, Pictures, Parts, and Shop - Mini-ZRacer.com
Forums, Mini-Z, MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z, Kyosho MiniZ, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, MiniZ Hop-Ups, MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Kyosho Mini-Z Parts, Kyosho MiniZ Hop-Ups, Kyosho MiniZ Parts, Kyosho Mini-Z Racer Hop-Ups, Racer Kyosho Mini-Z Parts
Old 2009.05.16, 06:17 PM   #1
egonzalez
Registered User
 
egonzalez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 597
Driving Style/Radio Setup

Driving Style/Radio Setup


I wanted to get the opinions of my fellow racers on their driving style and radio setup. Any input that you guys can share will be appreciated.

• What is faster using brakes or rolling the car into the turn without brakes?
• Is out-in-out the best way to maximize corning speed? (referencing entry and exit to a turn’s apex)
• Do you select the front tires based on the stickiest(most traction) that your car can handle without it over steering and with the least amount of turning radius required to negotiate the turn? In theory, less turning radius equals more corner speed. Is this correct?
• Does it just depend on your particular driving styles and no one driving style is faster then the other?
• We talk a lot about the car’s setup but what about radio tweaking and proper radio setup. Where do you guys begin? This seems to be big selling points of all high end radios.
• +/- steering curve +/- end point settings, etc…
• Do you balance your cars steering radius left and right to be equal? etc…
egonzalez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.05.16, 10:28 PM   #2
MillerTime
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 62
My thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by egonzalez View Post
Driving Style/Radio Setup


I wanted to get the opinions of my fellow racers on their driving style and radio setup. Any input that you guys can share will be appreciated.

• What is faster using brakes or rolling the car into the turn without brakes? Almost always rolling the corner. Especially in a stock class where power may be limited, you don't want to waste momentum by braking.
• Is out-in-out the best way to maximize corning speed? (referencing entry and exit to a turn’s apex) That depends on the course layout, particularly the section after the turn. You often want to take a corner in the way that best sets you up for the next section, and that's not always out in out. If you do a search on race cornering strategies you'll find alot of stuff for full scale racing and that generally applies to RC scales too.
• Do you select the front tires based on the stickiest(most traction) that your car can handle without it over steering and with the least amount of turning radius required to negotiate the turn? In theory, less turning radius equals more corner speed. Is this correct? I think that could be a personal preference thing. Given the option I like to have as much steering as possible and then I adjust my steering input to the most I can apply. I like that because in a race situation you may sometimes need to take a different line than your preferred line, to make a pass or block one, avoiding a car on the inside rail, etc. It's also a balance between front and rear so that the car handles as close to neutral as possible, but again that's a preference thing.
• Does it just depend on your particular driving styles and no one driving style is faster then the other? I think so. There is one style of driving that is almost always preferred however, and that's smooth driving. As I mentioned before, that's even more crucial in a stock class setup where your available traction may exceed your available power, you need to carry speed and setup for the next section. It's amazing how a driver that takes a line to carry speed and setup for the next section can appear to have a lot more horsepower.
• We talk a lot about the car’s setup but what about radio tweaking and proper radio setup. Where do you guys begin? This seems to be big selling points of all high end radios. Some areas of radio setup are personal preference - for example I like to have 100% of the available steering and throttle and then I adjust my input to what the car and conditions will allow. Some people prefer to have their radios set to limit the available steering or throttle so they can go full throw without breaking traction. I will say that it's absolutely critical to have a radio that allows you to adjust at least the endpoints/dual rates, and I really like a transmitter that allows exponential adjustments too.
• +/- steering curve +/- end point settings, etc…
• Do you balance your cars steering radius left and right to be equal? etc… Yes
I'm by no means a pro but I've done a bit of RC racing of different types for many years. One thing that I often see is a really fast driver that has a personal preference that seems completely against the common logic. A huge part of driving well is feeling comfortable, relaxed, and confident.
MillerTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.05.16, 11:30 PM   #3
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
In Stock class, you should probably never brake... especially if you drive an out-in-out line, the cars simply don't need to slow down all that much. The last time I drove at Fast Pace Racing, I only let completely off the throttle in one place, and that was the end of the straight (the PNWC layout goes into a hairpin at the end). Otherwise I was on at least half throttle for the entire lap.

Out-in-out is fastest for a simple corner, however when you have a full lap that is many corners strung together, you have to adjust your line to setup for the next turn afterwards. Sometimes you have to compromise your exit from one corner to get a good entry on the next one -- the most notable case being consecutive hairpins or S-curves.

Front tire choice is entirely up to the driver's preferences, but in general, a mildly understeering car is the fastest and most consistent on the track. Overly sticky front tires cause a lot of friction, which means lots of steering but also reduced cornering speed. It's often advantageous to run harder front tires and use harder rear suspension settings to balance the car out. I tend to get better results nowadays from harder front tires and more steering throw than the opposite, possibly because I can have more steering "resolution" with harder front tires, which means a bit more precision, which means tighter lines.

If you have REALLY fast reflexes, you can drive like Grant (Matsushima) and just banzai every corner... but for the rest of us it's probably safer to take it easy and play a smoother game. If you want some references, look up the PNWC videos from past championship races. Most of the winning drivers are smoother drivers, either that or they set up their cars to make them look smooth (NOT sarcasm, btw -- like radios, cars should also match their drivers). I personally drive as smoothly as possible unless I find that the particular corner requires more steering than I have, in which case I have two options, 1) be sane, and slow down, or 2) be insane, and enter with a drift. Option 2 eats tires though, and so I'm learning how to restrain myself. In the end I think Option 1 is faster solely because it's more consistent, and when you slow down you can hold a tighter line, which can make you faster even if your absolute speed is lower.

I have slow hands and only decent reflexes (exception: adrenaline high ), so I need the fastest and most aggressive response from the radio possible -- hence why I got an EX-1 UR, I absolutely love the Ultra HSR mode. I also like to have as much resolution as possible on my controls, so I use the dual rate a lot, and try to leave the steering and throttle curve alone. I use up to 10% Punch if needed, say for some Mod motors (zero low-end grunt). I put 5% Punch on the steering to get around the ASF PCB's mild dead band. Steering Curve I prefer to leave at 0, but it really depends on the track I go to. I used something like -20% at Kenon (obscenely sticky RCP) and up to +35% at ILR (slippery RCP).

For drifting, you actually could get away with +100% steering curve, the cars need to react faster anyways.

Left/Right steering should always be balanced for a track car (oval cars are a different story), unless you have some disability or injury that prevents your steering hand from working evenly in both directions. That means that the end points should be set such that the max. steering angle of the car is equal left and right. If your rear pod is tweaked or out of alignment (this actually happened on an Atomic motor pod I had once), then you can compensate by adjusting the endpoints, but then your car's actually traveling straight with the chassis pointing sideways. It's not an ideal situation, so I just bought myself a new motor pod.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog

Last edited by color01; 2009.05.16 at 11:43 PM.
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.05.17, 10:08 AM   #4
egonzalez
Registered User
 
egonzalez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 597
Thanks for the replies.
egonzalez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.05.17, 11:13 AM   #5
MikeL
Painter Guy
 
MikeL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 357
Using a little dual rate, or epa as absolutely needed always helps corner speed, if the track is too tight though, you can't get away with less than 100% without slowing down too much for slow corners. You can use the radio to fudge your setup a little bit one way or the other though, if you don't have enough turn in, you can raise your steering curve (expo, whatever your radio calls it) making the wheels turn a little faster off center, and vice versa if it's too twitchy. I've had the best luck when my car is balanced, but there are times when it is lacking corner speed this way, it tends to be faster when it's on the edge, but that usually puts me into a few barriers
MikeL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.15, 07:28 PM   #6
egonzalez
Registered User
 
egonzalez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 597
Any more comments on driving style/setup????? More input would be appreciated…
__________________
****************************

THE PLACE FOR EVERYTHING RC

www.majsrc.com


Friday Night Mini-z Racing 7PM


****************************

<<< Team Driver for MHS / R1Wurks / DG DESIGNS >>>
egonzalez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.15, 08:26 PM   #7
racerlog
Registered User
 
racerlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Posts: 90
i would recommend you try driving a few different cars while at the track -- no matter how weird they might feel. you may find different aspects you like. i know i like my cars a little loose in the rear -- cause i think it is faster. the most important thing though is to have a car that you can drive consistent. once you are consistent then worry about getting consistently fast

all in all, i think you had a good showing at the nyrc atomic regional. just imagine how much better you will be at the pn regional after getting almost a month of flat track practice at our new, smooth, air conditioned race track!!
__________________
Mike / Get out and race! Shop local!
RCAmerica / XRAY / Hudy / JACO / Atomic / HKS Hobby / Speed Merchant / Maj's Hobby Shop & Raceway / TQ Racing / Mike L. Designs / RacerLog
Find Race Tracks :: Go to Upcoming Races :: Watch Race Videos
racerlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.15, 08:55 PM   #8
egonzalez
Registered User
 
egonzalez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerlog View Post
i would recommend you try driving a few different cars while at the track -- no matter how weird they might feel. you may find different aspects you like. i know i like my cars a little loose in the rear -- cause i think it is faster. the most important thing though is to have a car that you can drive consistent. once you are consistent then worry about getting consistently fast

all in all, i think you had a good showing at the nyrc atomic regional. just imagine how much better you will be at the pn regional after getting almost a month of flat track practice at our new, smooth, air conditioned race track!!
Thanks for your input... I can't wait for this Thursday.... I it will racing to say the least....
__________________
****************************

THE PLACE FOR EVERYTHING RC

www.majsrc.com


Friday Night Mini-z Racing 7PM


****************************

<<< Team Driver for MHS / R1Wurks / DG DESIGNS >>>
egonzalez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.16, 02:45 AM   #9
EMU
EMUracing
 
EMU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,417
Send a message via AIM to EMU
I like a car that I dont have to push too hard to run at race pace. The most important thing for me, is a car that is fast, but feels slow. It shouldnt be very edgy, but should have good transition speed and lots of corner speed. I want a little more steering off throttle, but not to the point that the car will lose the rear end. I typically use a hard rear end suspension, with mid/hard front tire setup (ATM AW40/40 slick are my usual front tire with Kyosho 20d radial or ATM 8d radial rear tire). For slower motors, I go with less overall grip on the car. Too much grip makes me feel like I scrub off too much speed in the corners. I like the car to rotate more on throttle, but not to the point that it spins out. I dont want the car to push out as I get on the throttle. Once I hit the apex, I want to be able to get on throttle for the exit.

I usually push harder in qualifiers than I do in mains. Qualifiers are much shorter than the main. Its more important to push to get to the highest qualification you can. Once you are in the main, its much longer, so you can just try to focus more on consistancy. I try to run as fast as I can without overdriving the car. I dont want to wear my tires and lose punch at the later stage of the race when I would need it.

I dont drive slow. Just not as hard as I would in qualify. I try to run as tight of a line as I can, and pace the cars around me... looking for opportunities to get passes clean. After the halfway point, I start to push a little more, my tires should be at optimum temperature, where people that use a softer tire are starting to lose a little grip.

Obviously race strategy is different in every race, especially depending on grid position. If you start in the back, you are going to push a little harder to get to the front. But the important thing, is not to push too hard early on. People are still trying to find their rhythem, and evaluate their cars. The best way to make passes is by other drivers mistakes, or other people pushing too hard to make a pass and leaving an opening where you can jump up 2 positions early in the race. I usually gain a few positions on starts when I start towards the rear, since people fight for positions too early and end up losing a few... My general rule, is not to try to battle for a position until after the first few corners. I try to give the cars around me room, and pace the cars in front of me. If there is a clean opening, I take it. Otherwise I try to wait it out a little to find something that is clean. Its important to pass, but more important to make a pass without taking yourself or another car out. You also dont want to slow yourself down too much when you make the pass. Example would be the block pass. This may get you the position, but will lose time on the cars ahead and bring the cars behind closer...

If I start in the front, I am not going to try to make any passes for the first half of the race. Unless the leader is getting away, and I know I am considerably faster than the car ahead. If we are all close, then I will ride it out for some time to try to get a gap on the cars behind. Every time you battle for a position, you allow cars behind to catch up, and the car ahead to build more of a gap.

Racerlog, one thing that is difficult about driving a few cars on the track, is that you lose feeling for the car you are driving. I know this from driving many classes at big races. I think it is best to decide which car feels best before the race, and fine tune that on race day. If you are only driving one class, test a couple cars on the surface during practice, and choose the fastest one that feels the most consistant. This may not be the car that puts down the fastest lap, but will be the car that will be able to string along the most fast laps. Look at the top 10 lap average, not just the top lap...

When setting my endpoints, I put the car on the track, and make a circle left. Then make one to the right. I want to set my endpoints so that they are basically equal. I dont use any steering curves. I occasionally use throttle curves depending on the motor I am using, and what I want to get out of it. With a 70t, I usually use a positive curve. I want more control on the top of the throttle band. So I can let off just a little as I go through sweepers. With a straight curve, I feel there is such little trigger movement to the deceleration that I get when I let off the throttle. With a modified motor, I usually use no curve.

I disable Virtual Inertia on all of my cars. I used to use brake a lot, even for stock. But that was before I had VI disabled on the cars. I still occasionally use brakes, depending on the layout, and the position I am in on the track. In general, smooth in, smooth out is fastest and most consistant. Some layouts require heavy braking, although most PN layouts, I rarely brake. Sometimes there are one or two corners that braking will help. Most of the time, drag brake and scrub will be sufficient to slow you down enough for the corner.

It is always important to take the driving style of the drivers around you into consideration. Some drivers are slow in, fast out... other fast in slow out. Know what they do, so you can anticipate passing locations and prevent collisions. I like to pace cars a little before looking for a pass, so that I know it will stick and where I have to defend the line after making the pass (where they run well on the track).
__________________
EMUracing
Micro RC Syndicate /DG Designs /GSR /Reflex Racing /Fast By Faqish /MurderTown Racing
EMU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.16, 08:45 AM   #10
egonzalez
Registered User
 
egonzalez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 597
Thanks EMU for your input.... By driving smooth you not only shave seconds off the clock but you also less prone to tire wear, tweaked chassis, bent rims etc...I also disable Virtual Inertia on all of my cars. I ran the same tire combination at the atomic race.. (AW40 and Kyosho 20 treaded and zero off set all the way around.) I agree that fast car that feels slow is the winning ticket, but without a timing system, it is difficult to come to this conclusion. I will try to make better use of race results in the coming weeks. I also noticed that the ability to read the fastest line around the track is important.
__________________
****************************

THE PLACE FOR EVERYTHING RC

www.majsrc.com


Friday Night Mini-z Racing 7PM


****************************

<<< Team Driver for MHS / R1Wurks / DG DESIGNS >>>
egonzalez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.17, 12:37 AM   #11
color01
Moderator
 
color01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
Wish I had a coach like you, EMU. Growing up on Need for Speed is so bad for actual racing.

If you have a decent mental clock, you can judge your setups by pushing the car as hard as it can go around the track for a few laps and seeing where you're faster or slower. And of course you can use the cars around you as a general guide -- after all, when you race, if you're the fastest on the track for that main, you win.

One more thing I'd like to chime in on is the use of throttle curve to adjust drag brake. If you run a positive curve, then you're taking power away from the motor more slowly than if you run a negative curve, thus the initial drag braking effect is actually lowered (assuming your finger is moving just as fast). So if you want a lot of drag brake, for example, at the end of the straight, but don't want to hit the brakes, you can try running a negative throttle curve. This is what TJ does, and we all know how fast he is. Eventually I'll figure it out, IMO there is a lot of merit to it.
__________________
Brian Ma

Greyscale RC

PN Racing | My TinyRC Blog
color01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.17, 01:17 AM   #12
yasuji
PN RacingTEAM Driver
 
yasuji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southern calfornia
Posts: 1,530
Send a message via AIM to yasuji Send a message via Yahoo to yasuji
yasuji's theory

go till u see god then brake
BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________

Grant "Yasuji" Matsushima

PN Racing Team Driver
www.pnracing.com
gm@pnracing.com

yasuji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.17, 04:58 PM   #13
Tjay
Registered User
 
Tjay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,840
I never use brakes. I don't know how.

99% of the time, I'm on throttle. The only time I let off to neutral position is when I'm coming in too hard on a turn, usually after the straight-away.

I don't blimp my throttle when driving 2wd, however awd is different story...

I now use 3PK because I like the feel of the throttle. I has longer range for more resolution. Same goes to the steering. It's not too snappy like the super dooper advance feature you get on a UR and no, it is not the same if you lower down the curves or changing it to "high" instead of "advance".
Tjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.17, 08:58 PM   #14
MikeL
Painter Guy
 
MikeL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 357
I was thinking about this as I was trail braking my 1/1 car into the office parking lot If you've driven some fast guys cars and said, damn this car has so much push how do you get around the track? well that's it, the get into the braking zone enough to unload the rear which makes the car turn in. I can only do it if I get the radio settings right, once past neutral for some reason I can only get full brakes, lol. So if the radio/esc has enough drag into nuetral the car will do it, I've found this very hard to do on a Z and still have reverse.
__________________
2.4 MR02 WTF, MH Spec tube damper
2.4 MR02 Std front end, MH Spec tube damper
http://www.MikeLdesigns.com
http://www.majsrc.com
http://www.nyrcsuperraceway.com/
MikeL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009.06.17, 09:06 PM   #15
MikeL
Painter Guy
 
MikeL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjay View Post
I never use brakes. I don't know how.

99% of the time, I'm on throttle. The only time I let off to neutral position is when I'm coming in too hard on a turn, usually after the straight-away.

I don't blimp my throttle when driving 2wd, however awd is different story...

I now use 3PK because I like the feel of the throttle. I has longer range for more resolution. Same goes to the steering. It's not too snappy like the super dooper advance feature you get on a UR and no, it is not the same if you lower down the curves or changing it to "high" instead of "advance".
I've never seen you drive, but I have seen and driven fast guys cars who also tell me they are on throttle the whole time, but if you watch their trigger finger it's really not You have to let off even 20% just to get some weight transfer, 100% of the time I remind myself to calm down and go a little slower, I go a little faster
__________________
2.4 MR02 WTF, MH Spec tube damper
2.4 MR02 Std front end, MH Spec tube damper
http://www.MikeLdesigns.com
http://www.majsrc.com
http://www.nyrcsuperraceway.com/
MikeL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Random thoughts on MA010 chassis parts and setup locwan Mini-Z AWD MA-010, MA-015 4 2008.06.30 04:42 PM
What do you think of this setup? Action B Mini-Z AWD MA-010, MA-015 10 2008.04.24 09:17 AM
Mini Z Setup and Offset sheets RyukoTR Setups 0 2007.08.25 01:39 PM
Couch Racing track setup - 2 ovals plus turns for sale Ryan Gardner Miscellaneous Discussion 0 2005.03.31 04:01 PM
What do you use to drill bodyhole for headlight setup??? matrix Parts and Hop-ups 3 2004.06.30 05:24 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2011 Mini-ZRacer.com
Mini Inferno Sale - Up to $85 Instant Savings!
Micro-T Hop-Ups
RC18R, M18, Micro RS4, Mini-LST, TamTech-Gear, Minizilla, RC18T, RC18B, RC18MT
shop.tinyrc.com Products

more»
Tiny RC Community News
[03/22/17] MZR was on vacation, didn't... : All kidding aside, the host experienced a bit of a server meltdown last week and efforts to restore the site to a new server took longer than anticipated. The current server is temporary until - more»
[11/25/15] Did You Hear? Our Black... : Hey Racers,
We're getting started a bit early with our Black Friday sale this year.  Generally we're not supporters of retailers opening early on Thanksgiving, but in our case, we're - more»
[06/30/15] shop.tinyrc.com: Have You... : Hey All! Just a quick reminder to everyone that we post all of our shop.tinyrc.com Newletters here on the MZR Forum. If for some reason you miss them in your email inbox, you can always see the - more»
Mini-Z, Mini-Z Racer, MR-02, MA-010
M18, M18T, RC18T, Mini-LST, Mini-T, Micro RS4, XRay, 1/18, 18th scale
XMODS, XMOD, Micro Flight, ZipZaps, ZipZaps SE, Bit Char-G, MicroSizers, TTTT, Plantraco Desktop Rover, SuperSlicks, Digi Q
Mini Inferno, Mini Inferno ST, half EIGHT, 1/16, 16th scale
Epoch, Indoor Racer, 1/43, 43rd scale
E-Savage, eSavage, eZilla, e-Zilla, HPI
Robots, Bots, Bipeds, Wheeled, Manoi, Roomba, NXT, Lego, Hacking
Crawling, Crawlers, Micro, RC, Losi Mini-Rock Crawler, Duratrax Cliff Climber
Kyosho Minium, Caliber 120, Minium Forums
Mini-Z Hop-Ups, Mini-Z Parts, Mini Inferno Hop-Ups, Mini Inferno Parts, M18 Hop-Ups, M18 Parts