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Old 2019.12.12, 11:11 PM   #16
TPDazzle
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I think we should run the new tracks and have a random drawing of the tracks that fit the 8 tile by 12 tile space limits after that. It seems much simpler than tallying votes and waiting for people to participate.
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Old 2019.12.13, 06:33 AM   #17
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I would not allow the process to be beholden to participation... we all know as altruistic as we are, you just wonít get everyone to participate in a timely manner. I donít mind at all if track selection was not undemocratic in that regard.

What may work best in long run is if by event 5-6, a public pole was created here and or on FB for example to select the tracks for the next season. Gives ample time for participation and should few do so, no excuses and resolves the discussion at the conclusion of each immediate season so no need for lingering questions, etc. the forum here has poll option, as does FB. I donít see the HFAY FB page being used much anyway so may be good to use that depending on how the page was setup, open vs. closed, etc. Would be nice to see HFAY FB page used more to advertise each months event races, final results, etc. I realize what Iím asking is creating work for someone other than myself which is easy. I have the same position for my club and itís time/work.
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Old 2019.12.13, 04:49 PM   #18
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do you have all these as individual files?
yes I do have the both as printable and as the colored in ones.
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Old 2019.12.16, 08:49 AM   #19
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Here is the Manual for Season 29, I only added a few clarifications. Let me know if you see something missing or if we need to add anything.

HFAY Season 29 Manual
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Old 2019.12.16, 01:08 PM   #20
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Here is the Manual for Season 29, I only added a few clarifications. Let me know if you see something missing or if we need to add anything.

HFAY Season 29 Manual
Hi Brian-

I was wondering, since the rules are specific about which boards/esc are acceptable, will/should they include Das Mikro clone boards (ASF and VE Pro clones)? I have an old MR02 with a Das Mikro ASF board that I occasionally run in HFAY races.
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Old 2019.12.16, 09:25 PM   #21
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What about the out of spec PN 3500 V3 or older motors? I feel they shouldn't be allowed.

Also, We tested the Kyosho Green 4100 KV motor and it's pretty much the same speed as a stock Kyosho brushed motor.
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Old 2019.12.16, 09:47 PM   #22
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I thought it was just the v3 motor that was faster, are the v2's faster also?
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Old 2019.12.17, 01:44 AM   #23
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I'm not sure what either of you guys are talking about with V2 and V3, as far as I understand it, ANY 3500 motor is ok. It was the 5600kv that used to be racer spec and isn't anymore.

Quote:
Legal Brushless Motors: All motors with a 3500 or lower KV rating are legal. Including but not limited to PN, Atomic, GL-Racing, X-power 3500KV motors. (Open gearing for both).
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Old 2019.12.17, 04:54 AM   #24
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PN releases V3 in which the 3500 was not made to correct specifications and notably faster. They have purged those from retail with V3.1. V3 specifically is not permitted per PN races rules as well. It’s basically an out of spec motor that has since been discontinued and replaced. Older versions do not have this same issue. It is my understanding that V3.1 is meant to reflect stock class format but I’m not a PN rep, sponsored driver, etc. so only repeating what I hear.

V3 motor is easy to identify with black end bell and retaining screw. V3.1 now has gold end bell.

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Old 2019.12.17, 12:50 PM   #25
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PN releases V3 in which the 3500 was not made to correct specifications and notably faster. They have purged those from retail with V3.1. V3 specifically is not permitted per PN races rules as well. Itís basically an out of spec motor that has since been discontinued and replaced. Older versions do not have this same issue. It is my understanding that V3.1 is meant to reflect stock class format but Iím not a PN rep, sponsored driver, etc. so only repeating what I hear.

V3 motor is easy to identify with black end bell and retaining screw. V3.1 now has gold end bell.
Huh, hadn't heard of this. Don't V1 and V2 also have black endbells? I think I might have a V3, it is not notably faster than a 70T, nor is it notably faster than my other 3500 motor, which is definitely a V1 or V2.

As I mentioned earlier, there hasn't been any mention of this previously regarding HFAY that I have seen.
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Old 2019.12.17, 01:04 PM   #26
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The v3 has the screw on the side that holds the end bell cap in place. It’s a rather recent thing apparently. Not something PN went out of their way to disclose other than quickly discontinuing the v3 and replacing with the v3.1. Not exactly a big deal given 70t and stock brushed motors have wide range of performance and PN is not the only manufacturer to have a slip in production/manufacturing on a product. There are a number of people with the out of tolerance v3 that can confirm this. Regardless, PN caught it, replaced it so it’s a nothingburger if you will. PN will tech for it at PN events so it would behove them to make that clear. Given the limited number of domestic PN events, again, not much of an issue other than should be made known so people don’t get caught in tech inspections with what may be an unknown technical tech fail. They may even state this now, I haven’t seen the latest rules.

The last thing I believe anyone wants to do is to have to go and track down versioning of motors for HFAY. Manufacturers simply don’t make this simple as they are not branded such and requiring specific variants of specific motors is a hassle most simple don’t want to have to deal with. It becomes a question of is the effort worth it on a practical level and speaking for other HFAY judges (club judge), I don’t need more work to do on race day...

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Old 2019.12.18, 01:00 AM   #27
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We have been running the V2 3500kv motors until recently, and switched to V3's in the September time frame this year. I honestly can't say I noticed any significant improvement in power, but it's probably just sample to sample variation.

I've purchased probably 20+ PN brushless motors over the years, mostly 5500kv and 3500kv, and many multiple rotors on top of that. From my experience a lot of the variation comes from the strength of the rotors. There are some rotors that are just noticeably faster than others, no matter which can/stator they are in.

Having designed magnets in my professional career, I can say that normal production tolerances for magnets can be up to the +/-10% range for energy product (strength). Unfortunately these are the limitations of current processes, and certain rotors/motors will just be stronger than others.

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Old 2019.12.18, 09:11 AM   #28
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I think the HFAY track size makes motor inspection a non factor. I am rarely using all the speed and acceleration my car is capable of even with a 70T motor on a HFAY track. I used a PN 5500 when it was legal to do so and could not best my 70T laps despite the car being MUCH faster. I was limited by my middle-of-the-pack driving ability. I do agree with the rule changes to drop to 3500 brushless, but I think the track size and driver skill will even out motor production run discrepancies.
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Old 2019.12.18, 09:12 AM   #29
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Yeah, we all know the variation you get with brushed motors as well. Iíve seen box stock brushed motors blow past 70t and likewise 70t that blew past others. I thought brushless motors were to have tighter tolerances so that this was much less prevelant.
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Old 2019.12.18, 01:59 PM   #30
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art4242 thanks for sharing technical & test data info...I always wondered how many production lines the 130 rotors are sourced from or if they were even checked for tolerances before being installed or packed for individual sale...apparently not the case.

Either way I agree with TPDazzle that for HFAY sized tracks motor variation in general do not factor in as much. Im following the discussion on FBalls regarding V3 but if art4242 has ran it and says its not much of a thing then personally i'd have no issue with anyone using it if they already spent 50 bucks to use it for their racer class cars. Overall per arch2b i find BL motor to motor (even brand to brand) variation much narrower than brushed motors which is no secret can be "tweaked" very easily for massive easy power gains.

At Malibu Mini-Z none of us ever purchased a V3. We run V1, V2, GL & DXR & and completely non-tweaked 70T's in my case slower than BLs. Comparing all other BL's their speed differences if any were withing the limits of the quality of battery pack used.(freshness, brand etc)

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