2011.12.18, 10:51 PM
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#1
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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glitching?!
Hi,
Had an excellent day racing on mini tiles today (which is rare for me because of my big track makes me not very agile) but the car i was using suffered from a weird glitch in the steering. I don't think I had it on the car from original so:
1.Can you develop glitching over time with an MR03 asf board?
2. Do you think it might be motor related? It seems to be varied due to throttle input but I might be seeing things...
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2011.12.18, 11:06 PM
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#2
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PN Racing Team Driver
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 1,700
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all the glitching i have had on the 03 was due to newer motors needing to be broke in better. i have had one older motor cause glitching but i broke it in again and cleaned it well and all was good.
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R1Wurks
LET's Go Racing
MBMZR
DG Designs
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2011.12.18, 11:16 PM
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#3
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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Interesting...I guess i might not be crazy after all.
I'll try pulling the motor and see if the steering is glitch happy without it in.
Any suggestions on a fix to the board if it isn't the motor? I recall things like:
1. Cleaning the pot (with what I can't recall)
2. securing the pot with some CA glue
3. a capacitor on the motor (is that even possible on this gen?)
Can any of these fixes translate to the MR03 platform and has anyone had success with fixes for glitching?
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2011.12.19, 01:37 AM
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
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Capacitor across the battery terminals helps mitigate high startup draw from the motor, and sometimes a dirty board will cause glitching too. Try those as well.
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2011.12.19, 11:01 AM
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#5
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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Thanks for the info Brian...
A motor sized cap (103/104) good enough for the terminal bridge?
Looks like I've got some work ahead of me. I'll post once i find some solution.
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2011.12.19, 12:38 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir
Hi,
Had an excellent day racing on mini tiles today (which is rare for me because of my big track makes me not very agile) but the car i was using suffered from a weird glitch in the steering. I don't think I had it on the car from original so:
1.Can you develop glitching over time with an MR03 asf board?
2. Do you think it might be motor related? It seems to be varied due to throttle input but I might be seeing things...
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Glitching, Ah so that is what you are calling it. Seriously that sucks man. I hope you have it solved before the next meet. It was great that you made it down.
I will be watching for you result, in case it happens to me.
Colin
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2011.12.19, 02:04 PM
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles (Pasadena), CA, USA
Posts: 2,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir
Thanks for the info Brian...
A motor sized cap (103/104) good enough for the terminal bridge?
Looks like I've got some work ahead of me. I'll post once i find some solution.
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You're going to want a BIG capacitor, like we used to do for Xmods. In case the motor's startup current is high, the cap isn't for smoothing out arcing but rather to supply enough juice to keep the motor happy without starving the servo.
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2011.12.29, 05:00 PM
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#8
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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update:
TheSteve and i have been back and forth about the glitching issue because he recently bought an MR03 that has the exact problem mine does. At full throttle i get a brief (but annoying) full lock glitch to the left. I wound up taking apart my chassis only to have the fets on the top of the board go poof. Anyhow, I had to wait for some fets to try a couple scenarios...
During my time off i thought about whether or not the fets might have been a problem to the supply of current to the servo motor or whether i wound up with a faulty coreless motor for the servo assembly....
1. fix fets
2. swap coreless motor
3. test and reassemble and retest.
Once I had it fixed I tested with bare chassis and motor and it seemed to be fixed. I could not replicate the full lock glitch while the bare chassis was on the bench.
Unfortunately, the glitch is still there once the entire car is built. I'm wondering if there is a strange interference issue due to the PN A-Arm front end but I assume TheSteve has a standard front end on his so it's unlikely the issue.
Next I'll try swapping motors and on to a big cap power bridge"
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2011.12.29, 06:01 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 294
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Uuuuh, have you checked the servo saver assembly
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2011.12.29, 07:53 PM
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#10
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MINI-Z BODY NUT
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: pa.
Posts: 5,028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysir
update:
TheSteve and i have been back and forth about the glitching issue because he recently bought an MR03 that has the exact problem mine does. At full throttle i get a brief (but annoying) full lock glitch to the left. I wound up taking apart my chassis only to have the fets on the top of the board go poof. Anyhow, I had to wait for some fets to try a couple scenarios...
During my time off i thought about whether or not the fets might have been a problem to the supply of current to the servo motor or whether i wound up with a faulty coreless motor for the servo assembly....
1. fix fets
2. swap coreless motor
3. test and reassemble and retest.
Once I had it fixed I tested with bare chassis and motor and it seemed to be fixed. I could not replicate the full lock glitch while the bare chassis was on the bench.
Unfortunately, the glitch is still there once the entire car is built. I'm wondering if there is a strange interference issue due to the PN A-Arm front end but I assume TheSteve has a standard front end on his so it's unlikely the issue.
Next I'll try swapping motors and on to a big cap power bridge"
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Its not the A-arm....i have them on most of my 03s.
Check on fastpaceracing.com website under articles. I seem to remember articles by TJ here on the forum for a fix on that. Might have to go back aways in the articles.
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2011.12.29, 08:08 PM
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#11
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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1. Big cap power bridge done: no change other than less frequent full lock glitch.
2. Motor swap test with PN 07 on another car (imagine undoing just the motor leads and having the drive of one car going and the steering of another car working ) and found no glitch but minor twitch of front wheels (acceptable at this point)
Here is where i found out my issue: I attempted to put an S07 armature into the motor can that was on the car (was an Atomic Standard stockspec) rewired it to the car without powerbridge cap and the steering went insane! I have no reasoning behind it because the brushes are worked in (had the motor for 6 months) and nowhere down to being replaced. The motor caps seem well connected so....
Anyhow, i swapped the motor out for a PN 70T from another car and the steering seems fine now...maybe a little vague around center but no big lock glitch.
Thanks for the info lfisminiz...I'm going to look at that now.
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2011.12.29, 08:27 PM
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#12
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epic procrastinator
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Whistler, B.C.
Posts: 2,216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unearthed name
Uuuuh, have you checked the servo saver assembly
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Be a little more concise with your thoughts on this question please...
How exactly can the servo saver assembly be faulty and cause this issue? Has it happened to you?
Gave that FPR article a once over (I think) and it definitely has part of the steering woes I have...wonder if TJay ever noticed a full lock glitch under power?
for those interested:
http://fastpaceracing.com/content/er...ement-idle-fix
I might give that super glue trick a try but with the car all assmebled (for the 4th or 5th time today) I'm not keen on a full teardown yet again.
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2011.12.29, 08:36 PM
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#13
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PN Racing Team Driver
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 1,700
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the small glitching you see when the car is at rest is normal that is the servo constantly trying to center the front end. you can adjust out some with a programmer. but on the track your are always steering in some fashion so it you will never notice it. like i said in my first post the full lock glitching comes from the motor arcing when it pulls alot of amp. if you break the motor in real well it will more than likely go away. the rr 70 turn motor seem to do it real bad as well if not broken in. every time any of mine would do this i would just pull motor and break it in again for 10 15 minutes and it would go away. hope you got it all sorted out.
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R1Wurks
LET's Go Racing
MBMZR
DG Designs
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2011.12.30, 12:33 AM
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#14
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VE7FM
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 629
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OK, here are the details on the glitching I was seeing:
Bought a brand new US spec MR03 the other day, while waiting for my tx module to arrive(901SM to mount in a 4PK) I was borrowing a KT18 from a friend. The KT18 had no problem binding, however when I would give it throttle the steering would sometimes glitch - generally hard over to the right when I got near full throttle. Based on some searching I did on this forum I reset the KT-18(which did restore smooth travel and acceleration - so it needed that reset) That however made no difference to the glitching. Another potential problem I read about was the motor needing to be broken in. So I removed it and did a nice water dipped 20 minute break-in. While the motor now runs very smooth it did nothing to help the glitching.
I then removed the electronics board from the MR03 to verify everything looked good, I reset the ICS settings to default, again no difference, still glitched. I had already swapped batteries many times on both the car and KT18 and performed binding 20+ times.
At this point I was wondering if it could possibly be the KT18 as they seem to be of pretty poor quality over all. To test it further I convinced my wife to give me my birthday present early (Subaru Dnano!) We got it for a killer deal at a post Christmas sale(100 bucks brand new from a local store for body and chassis)
I fired it up with the same KT18 - it worked perfect, not a single glitch - just the way it should be.
Then today my friend Colin and myself setup a Mini96 with expansion in the garage and did 1500+ laps each. When he got here I tried his second KT18 - still had the glitching with the MR03(also drove my MRCG 1.1 which rocked!)
The MR03 ran decent but the hard right glitches into the wall suck when you're in a good battle.
Near the end of the day we did one further test. I used Colin's 4PK with 901SM module and gave it a shot - not a single glitch! It was perfect.
One last test - we opened up a brand base model MR03 we got today, bound it with a KT18 and it glitched as well.
So in conclusion - the KT18s suck! Or at a bare minimum there is a software version incompatibility between the KT18s and the MR03's we have. The KT18s are old early models for sure. The US spec MR03 was probably a year old and the new in box base model MR03 was year old stock from a local store.
I can't wait to get my 901SM and jam it in the 4PK to have glitch free operation.
A thank you to Derek for his advice in this matter over the past week and for Colin who gave me a lot goodies that made running today possible!
Best lap was with my MRCG1.1, 5.05 seconds with an Atomic stock running 70% max throttle and foam tires, McLaren F1 body.
Best lap with my MR03 was 5.20 I believe, F430 body, US spec car converted to RM, foam tires. Not bad for a first day out with the MR03 and fighting with glitches every other lap.
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2011.12.30, 03:13 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sofia,Bulgaria
Posts: 279
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One day I had severe problem with exactly the same glitching described by all of you on my MR-03 with KT-18..
And I changed nothing on my car. It just suddenly became a glitcher.
The cause was the motor. It was my old Kyosho stock motor.
As I changed it - the glitches was gone.
Exactly the same motor, that caused glitching on mine MR-03 - works perfectly fine on my friend's MR-02 AM car.
@TheSteve:
One thing to notice - I've heard that 901SM has stronger signal than KT-18 (I think mainly because of the higher voltage power supply).
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